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Discussion Starter #102
Hi PHD,

I am just delighted my engine is perfect with no damage. Compression test was very healthy and as of now i have another update that the Patrol is running and they fitted the injectors with all new seals/O rings again and the spill line got new washers too! Just in case my ones were wrong.

So all in all it got an oil change too and another coolant change so it didn't cost too much, they redone all the damaged threads and now it's starting very fast and revving fine :)))

So it just goes to show that even if you think the thread is up to the job don't take any chances around the timing area. Like i say when i first found the thread yes it was stripped but turned out not as bad as i thought but i shouldn't have left it to chance all the same so that part was my mistake. I didn't have any way to repair the thread anyway at the time so it's a lesson learned.

So it's a good result here with no damage thank god,my Patrol i am picking it up monday and can't wait!! :)

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #105 (Edited)
Yes it could have got VERY messy indeed!! I havn't got it back yet though and have not been in contact with them and won't until monday as the last time i spoke the guy wants to drive it for the weekend to make sure all is 100percent...i told him it's fine and i'll take it because i really need it for work but they are very exact and they just want to make sure which actually is better.So they wouldn't give it to me till monday LOL.

To be honest with everyone here i had a bad feeling about it since the time i made the timing slip up, (i mentioned this early in the thread) i cranked the engine but the crank timing was off and it had a hit off the starter while cranking, engine was not running though. So at the time making my enquiries one mechanic i am friendly with told me that there could be a 'miss' in the engine if a piston made contact with a valve,another very reputable engine builder said if there was any valve damage at all like that it would be very evident with noise and lack of power and the misfire would be bad.To be honest all theories were pointing towards 'the engine would need to have been running at a moderate RPM to do any damage. Yes these are an interferance engine but if the timing is out one or two teeth you can still get away without any problems because the pistons won't ever hit just been out a few teeth in the timing but it would throw the injection timing off a mile hence what i was experiencing the terrible running, bad poor cold starts,low power,dead pedal and finally not passing 2200rpm's.

Out of concern i phoned the mechanic up again saturday and asked him again was the engine ok and he said everything in that regard is 100percent!! No problems (thank god). He said they know very fast if there are any engine problems. Compression tests quickly rule out any valve issues.

If it's one thing i am highly impressed with though it's the Starters in these things...man ohh man this has seen crazy abuse and is still going. The last few days i was trying to start it smoke was coming out of it so bad i thought it was going to catch on fire :O .. had to cool it down with water LOL... i was getting pissed off at that stage and thought it was the pump...i did manage to start it with starting fluid but it ran terrible...(something i hate doing BTW...i don't like using starting fluid) Anyway back to the starter(I have a spare) but am putting it off doing it cause it's such a pig to access... i am going to continue using it till it dies litterly. IF it dies...lol

I was very lucky here but unlucky too in the sense that the last time i fitted the pump too we reckoned it threw the timing straight away trying to start it with that dodgy timing chain guide, when fitting the chain you wouldn't think it could ever slip as it's so tight and one would think there is no way it could slip but how wrong was i and now looking back i can see how easy the sprocket itself could skip on the chain if there was any sort of slop.Especially the cam sprockets as they are the smaller ones and could skip easier.

I am very very lucky it didn't slip any more teeth or i would have needed an engine and that would be a shame as the miles are low on this one at 200k's.
A learning curve here for sure but you know what....i was knocking the ZD30 ECM onboard engine managment diagnostics on these but they are actually very accurate and if you have problems but get no codes you can be sure it's something mechanical and don't be like me and assuming it could be still A sensor that didn't throw a code!!! Because it simply rarely is and even my other Patrol that i sold one time the MAF failed and it put an engine light on straight away.

So i am looking forward to picking the Patrol up monday, i will update here and i really hope that Dead pedal thing is gone cause that was sooooo annoying...i know i am rambling on here but my last Patrol i remember too i had that dead pedal thing when i got it back in 2010 and i drove for 9 years after that before i sold it recently but i forget now how i cured it way back then but i did and never had the dead pedal again in it.
I was even looking back on old threads i posted here and found one on that very topic that i myself posted but couldn't find a conclusion on it and as i say how i cured it at the time!

I will update when i get this one back and report how it's going.If something is still off i won't be long finding it out on the road!
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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That was my concern Dan, as with a two teeth slip, I thought pistons would have 'kissed' the valves ...
 

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Discussion Starter #107
Yes and was mine from the start but it looks like i have dodged a bullet lol

I will know now when i get it back.All going well tomorrow :)
 

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Discussion Starter #108 (Edited)
Still not Patrol back and i phoned the Mechanic and the last conversation we had later friday evening was that the timing cover was coming off again due to a noise!! ## Apparently the noise is coming from inside the timing cover.Sounds strange to me... maybe i could be lucky and it might just be the timing chain or a guide.

I asked was the engine ok and could it be a valve? He said the engine is 100percent and no nothing like that so i have no clue what this noise could be...i phoned just now and no answer so no news is good news....or is it!?

So it's a waiting game and right now i really need to get back to work as it's down the door of Christmas here and work is starting to pile up on me. I will wait and see will i get any answers today.To be honest for a quick timing adjustment i think this is going on far too long...he did say they were a mechanic down yesterday and they don't work saturdays so....

I will update but in the meantime i won't lie i am nervous!!! They might have thought the engine was ok but i think the possibility of valve damage is very high...it is confused though because they said if this was the case the Patrol wouldn't even start...so let's wait and see.. i thought i would have had it back by now! A noise inside the timing cover to me sounds like a valve.
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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566 Posts
Hi Dan,
if not already done, I suggest you download the technical manual from the archive.

EM 1090 gives you the valve timing angles. You can then compute what a slip of two teeth (knowing the number of teeth of each element) might have created in terms of damage inside your engine, and wether or not the pistons touched the valves.



And EM1048 all marks on gear :

514508


514509
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Please tell me you have downloaded the workshop manual from post #9 of the DI archives @dan ahern I've been telling you for years to do it, lolol. Put my mind at rest ;).
 

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Discussion Starter #111 (Edited)
Hi all,

Yes i have downloaded that GU2 but i have mentioned here that a compression test has been done and all the valves are ok and also it is with the diesel specialists now so out of my hands. However it's starting better and everytime but still not revving... but we have news!

So i just drove with these spare parts as requested by the diesel specialist shop this evening and i was lucky to have them, hopefully i will be ready to go with the Patrol tomorrow.I don't know what sort of a dumbass mechanic was at the camshaft sprockets before i got this Patrol but the small sprocket on the camshaft was not connecting via the keyway to the large timing gear properly and it was damaged also and apparently not allowing proper timing...when i fitted the IP i didn't need to touch these only set up all the timing.Now it is possible that when the timing slipped that this could have happened. Also the timing tensioner is a bad one so i was lucky to have that spare too. Did the mechanic not lock it properly....who knows...it looked fine to me!!

It looks like this is it and the problems have been rectified but i will be pessimistic until i get it back and drive it LOL.. I will hear from them tomorrow when these parts are fitted and i am hoping this fixed this problem for once and for all!!
Gear 1.jpg


gear3.jpg


gear2.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #112 (Edited)
Thanks to the moderator for editing those ;) Yes that note i meant to mention about the scissor gear the mechanic left that note but we since had a chat and he said they normally just lock it back up like i do with a flat screwdriver and put the tension back on the front part of the gear BUT Nissan advise that once the tension is released from the gear it needs to be taken back out and locked properly on a bench. Load of BS....Or in some cases replaced completly. End of the day this scissor gear is just to stop backlash and reduce noise.

We both agreed there this evening on the phone that it is perfectly fine to lock it back while in the vehicle also the mechanic admitted he didn't lock it before taking out pump either because he knew i hadn't locked it either previously when doing the IP change so he is just going to manually tension it like i had done.
On this forum here i have seen and read lots of lads doing it like this with fine results.

Apparently the issue with these is the inner hole never fully lines up when manually locking it in the vehicle but when the front portion of the gear that we manually tension is fully locked back in place it seems to be ok and the holes seem to line up enough! Even the mechanic said to be realistic aslong as some tension is on this gear it does the job,so on full tension it's fine.....Nissan just don't agree to using it unless the bolt can go straight through the three holes.

The times i locked the scissor gear myself the inner hole seemed to line up fine once the main lower large timing sprocket was put on it seems to push the inner gear back some more and then i can put the bolt straight through.Obviously after having it pretensioned and a large handled screwdriver left in it to lever it around a little So truthfully i don't know what the mechanic is on about,IS he even sure himself! lol

I will phone him again in the morning to make sure we are fully clear on this scissor gear! On my other Patrol i just sold i done the IP as mentioned and it's flying no issues with it what so ever and the scissor gear was locked properly by me.
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Thanks to the moderator for editing those ;) Yes that note i meant to mention about the scissor gear the mechanic left that note but we since had a chat and he said they normally just lock it back up like i do with a flat screwdriver and put the tension back on the front part of the gear BUT Nissan advise that once the tension is released from the gear it needs to be taken back out and locked properly on a bench. Load of BS....Or in some cases replaced completly. End of the day this scissor gear is just to stop backlash and reduce noise.

We both agreed there this evening on the phone that it is perfectly fine to lock it back while in the vehicle also the mechanic admitted he didn't lock it before taking out pump either because he knew i hadn't locked it either previously when doing the IP change so he is just going to manually tension it like i had done.
On this forum here i have seen and read lots of lads doing it like this with fine results.

Apparently the issue with these is the inner hole never fully lines up when manually locking it in the vehicle but when the front portion of the gear that we manually tension is fully locked back in place it seems to be ok and the holes seem to line up enough! Even the mechanic said to be realistic aslong as some tension is on this gear it does the job,so on full tension it's fine.....Nissan just don't agree to using it unless the bolt can go straight through the three holes.

The times i locked the scissor gear myself the inner hole seemed to line up fine once the main lower large timing sprocket was put on it seems to push the inner gear back some more and then i can put the bolt straight through. So truthfully i don't know what the mechanic is on about,IS he even sure himself! lol
No worries mate, you can choose large or small at the base of the post before hitting 'Post Reply', large means you don't need to leave the post and can still read commentary, small means you leave the post if you click and want to see the same detail. My biuld thread went small after the XF upload, took quite a while to set them all back up as large, I generally have commentary between pics, mine now has large as default.
 

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Discussion Starter #114 (Edited)
I am doing my best on this thread to be as honest as humanly possible. As i started it i intend on leaving nothing out... hence why i posted up those notes even! I like to be as meticolous as i can be because these chain of events could help others sometime.

The stressful part of this and i am going to be honest too is the mechanic is a nuissance to talk to because he is rushed off his feet...they have 15 vehicles booked in before me :O so they are doing me a favour getting me in this quick and only because i choose them to do the pump first day. I deal with Eugene the boss man but hardly ever to the mechanic. I did speak to him now this evening but it got a little tense because i told him those cam gears were fine when i last seen them LOL .... so things went a small bit sour... we both calmed and then i said nicely BUT it is possible that after the timing slip if the guide was the cause here that then it was possible to happen!! So he was happy with that and appreciates my honesty i think.....no blame game here just as i said to them i was helping them too as much as i can with spares etc....
Now that it's gone a little more technical on the phone the boss is just putting me straight through to the mechanic.

He said he has 100's of these Patrols done since they first came about in Ireland for the military etc...my confidense in these lads is high! They honestly are the best we have in the country. Anything diesel related comes here inc all the pumps.

Sad part is had i known it was the timing chain guide i could have just reset the timing again myself.... but i guess like i said before with my warranty on this pump i'm glad it came back here to the boys.I just couldn't face stripping all this down again at home with the doubt of the pump in the back of my head...like a lot of others my self diagnoses for these high pressure pumps and injectors is limited.

I will have more news tomorrow no doubt...but am i out of danger yet?? LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #115 (Edited)
Update!

Not a good one either...looks like it's the same as when it arrived to the mechanics first day. Today they fitted the parts that were damaged and we are back to the way it was when it left me...not revving...running perfect otherwise and starting one tip of the key!

I am been told, engine is 100percent, all compression is within specs, Injector pump and injectors are all fine.

Not sure what is going to be done next.. i phoned today and was in a foul mood. I told them it has taken them 8days to check all the work on the timing i just had done myself and to confirm back to me it's not revving....

Not a happy camper at all and i reminded them again that Mr Nissan told me it was the pump and things started to get a little sour... i was just in a bad mood. I told the mechanic did he blame me to be in this mood...i run a business and need to get back to work.I reminded him i was told by Nissan that it was the pump and i am waiting this long for a diagnosis|!! He might have the same attitude himself in the same situation.
The main reason for my attitude is the 8days with little to nothing done.

We calmed down then and i was reminded and assured that the pump was fine...
To me a Patrol starting but not revving ...the pump is the first thing i would change out.
I wonder could the MAF still cause this without putting a MIL light up?
I told them about the gearbox sensor too.
Let's see...i won't hold my breath.

Dan
 

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NISSAN PATROL Y61 3.0 Di (ZD30) 09/2000
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the only way to know about MAF is to analyse the signal getting out with a voltmeter connected at the back of it, and then oscilloscope to make sure it’s tension is “linear”.

The MAF tension is essential to the ECU to compute the controls it sends to the IP.

if the tension stays really too low, and does not go up with REVs, it will generate a lack of fueling and the Patrol won’t Rev.

If the MAF tension when key on and motor is off, is well above 1V, the patrol won’t even start !

better to unplug it.
by the way, when unplug, the Patrol will enter security mode and will rev very slowly.
Did you try to unplug it to see if there is any difference or if it stays the same ?
 

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2003 ZD30 Di Patrol (The rare Gold one)
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Thanks to the moderator for editing those ;) Yes that note i meant to mention about the scissor gear the mechanic left that note but we since had a chat and he said they normally just lock it back up like i do with a flat screwdriver and put the tension back on the front part of the gear BUT Nissan advise that once the tension is released from the gear it needs to be taken back out and locked properly on a bench. Load of BS....Or in some cases replaced completly. End of the day this scissor gear is just to stop backlash and reduce noise.

We both agreed there this evening on the phone that it is perfectly fine to lock it back while in the vehicle also the mechanic admitted he didn't lock it before taking out pump either because he knew i hadn't locked it either previously when doing the IP change so he is just going to manually tension it like i had done.
On this forum here i have seen and read lots of lads doing it like this with fine results.

Apparently the issue with these is the inner hole never fully lines up when manually locking it in the vehicle but when the front portion of the gear that we manually tension is fully locked back in place it seems to be ok and the holes seem to line up enough! Even the mechanic said to be realistic aslong as some tension is on this gear it does the job,so on full tension it's fine.....Nissan just don't agree to using it unless the bolt can go straight through the three holes.

The times i locked the scissor gear myself the inner hole seemed to line up fine once the main lower large timing sprocket was put on it seems to push the inner gear back some more and then i can put the bolt straight through.Obviously after having it pretensioned and a large handled screwdriver left in it to lever it around a little So truthfully i don't know what the mechanic is on about,IS he even sure himself! lol

I will phone him again in the morning to make sure we are fully clear on this scissor gear! On my other Patrol i just sold i done the IP as mentioned and it's flying no issues with it what so ever and the scissor gear was locked properly by me.
Geez mate. Where do you find these guys? Anybody that doesn't know to lock the idler gear with a 6 x 20mm bolt shouldn't be working on these engines.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #118 (Edited)
Yes i know Skeg..i am on the road now heading to them without them knowing so i am going to arrive down for a good chat!!

Apparently the Scissor gear wasn't ever locked properly from day one, i think i mentioned this too earlier on the thread because when i first put the engine to TDC and got the c's lined up with the pump before removing the pump those holes didn't line up.. but i managed to lock the scissor gear back in place myself everytime i removed or fitted a pump to it and had no issues redoing it back!
I think they are just going by the book and if you read any good manual nissan recommend taking it out and replacing it if tension was ever lost in that gear...load of BS. He asked did i just want him to lock it like i done and i said yeah fine!

I don't see any issue with putting preload on it and locking it up without taking out that gear!
 

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Discussion Starter #119
Ok get this.....i got a phone call from the mechanic and he said they suspect it's the coolant temp sensor on the head..i swapped this out weeks ago to try it and it made no differnce BUT the sensor i used it came out of my older 01 model Patrol i am breaking for spares and that Patrol overheated bad and done in the head gasket so could it be possible that the sensor was bad after it was in these overheated conditons...Mmm possible i spose! They said they were shaking the wiring around the sensor and the Patrol started revving...
Happy days if it's the sensor or the wiring..they will have a new one to fit at ten in the morning...let's see.
 

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I hope it is good news for you.

It is advisable to have a hw interface and sw compatible with your car, to be able to capture all sensors values as seen by the ECM as very often “security modes” come from bad values of these.
 
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