The toyota 6 cyl engine is overhead cam & is a lot easier to multivalve than the pushrod td42

Also the toyota 6 cyl engine was discontinued because it did not comply with current emissions either

It probably would be easier to do a complete new engine than to modify a td42 to comply

Regards Don

 

Didnt Nissan go from an OHV design with the TB42/45 to a DOHC VCT with the TB48????????
It can be done AND has been done by Nissan themselves.
Logical step from here would have been to build a direct injection compression ignition head for the TB48 making it the TD48.
Relatively easy to then add common fuel rail and electronic injectors, a CRD ECU and theres your EURO IV compliance and we would have been able to avoid the grenade ever landing on our shores!

Toyota could've easily done CRD for the 1HD-FTE (as nissan did with the CRD ZD30) but the V8TD and V8TTD have been in the developement pipeline over a decade, long before EURO IV was thought of, the 1HD-FTE is still in production for Africa and South America due to fuel worse than ours. And they can still be bought in East Timor too!!!!!

Could've even thrown a pair of Garret VCT turbos on for bugger all, then we would get easily 175-190kw / 550+Nm factory from the bombproof 'T' series engines bottom end. A powerful, overpistoned, reliable, long service life engine as opposed to the ZD30 :angryfir:

Investing as above in Patrol engine developement instead of the ignorance shown to date would have undoubtably robbed market share from Toyota enabling financial justification for R&D $$$$$ being spent. Then make a dual cab, extra cab for export to US and another market is cracked.

Hindsight.............. aint it Grand

Ben

 

So where is the new 6cyl TDI Patrol motor? Any more news? Supposedly, for the new Model we are gonna get a Titan (American Nissan SUV) body or it will be made on that platform. Last time I asked a "Dealer" late 08 is when we should see the new lift, so the motor details should be around by now....

 

Titan / Armada runs a 5.6l V8 petrol, no diesel as far as I know. The US Pathfinder also has this motor as an option.

Pair of navara YD25 CRDs bolted together with twin turbos should be good for 250kw / 700 Nm might be a very good starting place to challenge th TDV8 toyota!

 

Just my tow bobs worth but these so called 'emmision ' laws, are going to make life very dificult and expensive for us bushies who dont live next to a garage !

 

modifyng TD42 or TB48 would not = bullet proof.

 

Just my tow bobs worth but these so called 'emmision ' laws, are going to make life very dificult and expensive for us bushies who dont live next to a garage !

Agree....if the current ZD30s start popping like the old ones once they have a few KM's what will a 3.0 cab chassis be worth in ten years?? Think alot of engine conversions will getting done in years to come...bring back the 4.2 "MR NISSAN" or piss the 3.0's and drop somthing TUFF in them like a CUMMINS:!: ;-)

 

May be Nissan is waiting to see how it goes with Dodge possible producing the Titan for Nissan at there Mexican plant for the US market in 2010.

Wonder if they could be using the new 4.2 V6 or v8 deisel being built by Cummins for Dodge to be used in 2010.

 

modifyng TD42 or TB48 would not = bullet proof.

very true, but the bottom end of the TD42/TB48 has had no problems that Ive heard of and many people are making 160+ kW out of them on stock TD internals. The RD28 has the bottom end of a skyline............and I dont hear about bottom end issues with those, even with 40%+ power gains.

Get a solid bottom end/internals then put the sophisticated injection systems on after that. A structure is only as solid as its foundations

Put a decent bosch CRD ECU with proper sensors, a linked pyro with active ECU monitoring and it would just be about as bullet proof as possible.

Ben

 

All this lads' pub talk. There's much more to building an engine for mainstream production than "just" bolting on a new head !

 

very true, but the bottom end of the TD42/TB48 has had no problems that Ive heard of and many people are making 160+ kW out of them on stock TD internals. The RD28 has the bottom end of a skyline............and I dont hear about bottom end issues with those, even with 40%+ power gains.

Get a solid bottom end/internals then put the sophisticated injection systems on after that. A structure is only as solid as its foundations

Put a decent bosch CRD ECU with proper sensors, a linked pyro with active ECU monitoring and it would just be about as bullet proof as possible.

Ben

There is no way a petrol bottom end is going to cope with the cylinder pressures produced by a diesel for half a million K's

That diesel knock you hear from your diesel engine is close to pinging in a petrol engine. A petrol engine will not last 100KM if it is pinging it's head off.

If you have a look at the guts of a diesel engine you will see huge differences in bearing surface area and the build of pistons and rods. If they're not built strong they can't last.

 

very true, but the bottom end of the TD42/TB48 has had no problems that Ive heard of and many people are making 160+ kW out of them on stock TD internals. The RD28 has the bottom end of a skyline............and I dont hear about bottom end issues with those, even with 40%+ power gains.

Get a solid bottom end/internals then put the sophisticated injection systems on after that. A structure is only as solid as its foundations

Put a decent bosch CRD ECU with proper sensors, a linked pyro with active ECU monitoring and it would just be about as bullet proof as possible.

Ben

I agree, why can't Nissan with it's worldwide production houses & ties in with other Makers, ie: Renault, make a decent V6 or V8 twin turbo diesel like the Patrol should have had for the last 5 years. Don't Nissan take our market seriously enough to slot a decent large capacity TD engine with the guts that would make an Aussie proud to drive off the showroom floor & still run clean? God I hope Nissane execs read some of these forums that serious 4wd buyers like us write in.........

 

Of course, there is far far more to a production engine than just bolting on a new head. But the point I am making is that if a DOHC head with 24 variable timed valves can be bolted to a TB block, why cant a SOHC 24 solid valve arrangement be fitted to the TD block, as Toyota did with the 1HD-T to the 1HD-FT, then added electronic injection to make the 1HD-FTE. It would be far simpler than the TB conversion...... and it would have to cope with less revs.

"There is no way a petrol bottom end is going to cope with the cylinder pressures produced by a diesel for half a million K's"

True for say a 22R hilux motor but many petrol/diesel engines are very closely related especially from Mr Nissan, apart from thicker pistons/conrods the crank/supports of the RD28 series and RB25-26 series are exactly the same. Could be something to do with the fact one is a diesel with a 21.7 compression ration (11.5psi boost) and one can run 30psi of NOS injected boost at a compression ratio of 9.0, WITHOUT going bang as they have a bottom end capable of handling both situations.

The TB and TD engines are very similar as well and a conversion could/can still very easily be achieved if Nissan are prepared to actually spend some R&D dollars. Even if they didnt there has to be something in the Nissan-Renault-UD Trucks range that sould slot into the Patrols pit mine of an engine bay, like the Nissan FD46TA 4617cc making 125kW/440Nm in truck form. More boost, different fuel injection pattern and we could see 150/550Nm as trucks are always conservatively tuned for operator/fuel/service/high load irregularities.

Ben

 

Why do you want more power in a 4x4?

Buy a Toyota if you're not happy with Nissan. No one will lose any sleep over it , except you !!

TB42 and TD42 blocks are the same.

Yes the ZD30 is crap, but thats what you get when you make a light weight high tech diesel for domestic use. The TD42 is a heavy weight and just can not compete in todays demanding environment for low emissions / high power in a package that gives a high power to weight ratio - its a bus motor after all !!

Get over it. Do some back ground reading on diesel motors than re read what you have written .....

 

Benno I like the Idea of a truck type engine in the Patrol. Unfortunately most people want a diesel that drives like a car engine as most of the driving people do is on road.
Truck engines are too rough and are too slow in traffic though they would be the ultimate off road.
Like it or not we will get whatever is dished up to the larger markets.
When Nissan go all soft in the suspension like toyota, then I'll have to look for one of the only real 4wd left Cough landrover cough!

 

The problem with rovers is they also use small capacity engines in their vehicles

I wouldn't mind a 130 defender duel cab but i think a 2.4L 4 cyl is a bit small for the vehicle loaded with 500kg of stuff & with a 2800kg of van behind

Toyota seem to be the only manufacturer who believes in the need for a large capacity engine in a heavy 4wd

Regards Don

 

I think a dream engine for a Patrol would be the TD42 turbo and intercooled modified with direct injection and common rail using piezo injectors, keeping the iron head /OHV setup for reliability. That would be relatively easy for Nissan to do, but they dont. Why, emissions, weight, and as said above, the result would be a diesel that most users would say is old fashioned and rev limited, and has a heavy feel to drive. Buy your TD42 patrols now and look after them is my advice, there simply will NOT be a replacement in today's emission sensitive environment. Even the Cummins motors that are talked about are over complex and its very doubtful the Patrol would see the V8, just a V6, and I'd much prefer the TD42 to one of those. That's life.

 

ZD30's bottom end is strong enough and I haven't heard of problems with bearings or crankshaft.

 

I think a dream engine for a Patrol would be the TD42 turbo and intercooled modified with direct injection and common rail using piezo injectors, keeping the iron head /OHV setup for reliability. That would be relatively easy for Nissan to do, but they dont. Why, emissions, weight, and as said above, the result would be a diesel that most users would say is old fashioned and rev limited, and has a heavy feel to drive. Buy your TD42 patrols now and look after them is my advice, there simply will NOT be a replacement in today's emission sensitive environment. Even the Cummins motors that are talked about are over complex and its very doubtful the Patrol would see the V8, just a V6, and I'd much prefer the TD42 to one of those. That's life.

The only drama with the TD42 is more power = more heat and these engines are starting to struggle with the power outputs they have now. Love the old lumps of Iron but they are at the end of their development.

 

Re ZD30 - It's only a 4 pot, and not just a bottom makes an engine !

Torque is want you want not power in a 4by.

 

Given the choice i would rather a straight engine than a vee configuration to give more open space in the engine bay as well

I know there are a lot of small displacement engines putting out amazin power & torque figures but i would like to see 4L plus in a Patrol application

Regards Don

 

I know the chev v8 diesel conversions are popular, what are the 6.7l (i think) straight six cummins like compared to the chev, weightwise etc and would they fit the gu lengthwise, i thjink one of those installed would be the ultimate.

Cheers, Wayne

 

one of those installed would be the ultimate.

Really? The Ultimate?
How old-tech is the Cummins?
I know, old is best but is it really?

A Patrol is not a Dodge/F150, thank christ.

Flame suit on, how about a Toureg V10?

 

Good point grazza, people lose the plot as the Patrol is the "ultimate" go anywhere type of truck, last thing you want is high tech. Then a Patrol looks a poor man's truck on the school run ! Horses for courses as they say !

IMO, Nissan got it right with the Y60 / GQ in na TD42 form. Progress from there doesnt add anymore to the vehicle's abilities (OK maybe a turbo). It just makes it more complex, more expensive to run and more prone to failure. Old IS best if you want a truck for its reliability. Technology just complicates things (mainly for emissions) and gives the user little in return. Hell, what electrics do you need once you've got power windows and locks - maybe, if your feeling left out, power mirrors ! Over-complex engine and body management computers with motors powering everything - not for me thanks !

It is interesting to read the fuel consumption threads for the ZD30. My interpretation of this is that the ZD30, even in CRD form, has a worse fuel consumption than a TD42 or even a RD28t Patrol. Figure that one out.

and for all you younguns reading this, I am over 40 !

 

Really? The Ultimate?
How old-tech is the Cummins?

I only say that because the dodge ram at brissy 4x4 show put out 350hp and 880 nm, i thought that would really get up and boogy, with reliability!

Good point grazza, people lose the plot as the Patrol is the "ultimate" !

I didnt say the patrol was the "ultimate" i said the cummins straight six,

Cheers, Wayne.