Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
154 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi BennoGU28,

I hope you don't mind me dragging up a quote from an old 2010 post you made, but you made some interesting comments against using 2 Stroke in diesel.

........................

The IP designed operating temp and viscosity is another reason why I am not running 2 stroke as no-one (that I have seen anyway) has published research on its actual effects on the k.v. of diesel. Simply saying its an oil therefore it has to lubricate doesnt wash with me, you dont put engine oil in the gearbox for a good reason. And then on 2stroke there is the whole ammonia vs viton thing, which I have not been able to find in either the TCW-3 or JASO schemes ruling it in or out, all I know is that the dudes who hold the viton patent expressively reccomend to not come in contact with ammonia. Ammonia as far as I was aware was, and probably still used, in marine 2 stroke to control water.....


Can you explain this a bit more for the less technically aware, especially regarding the viscosity.

I use Castrol 2T, not a marine 2 stroke, does this avoid the ammonia issue.

Cheers,

Peter
 

·
Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
Joined
·
48,269 Posts
Mate there is no downside to using 2T as long as it is mineral and not synthetic. It has been tested by Mercedes and a few others, and the trick has been around for eons. From our point of view, the sulphur content goes towards making up for what was dropped from diesel some years ago, not quite so important for later models but if it is shutting my fuel pump up then that's good enough for me and proves it is doing something good. There is absolutely no evidence I have seen anywhere of harm being done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,837 Posts
Hi BennoGU28,

I hope you don't mind me dragging up a quote from an old 2010 post you made, but you made some interesting comments against using 2 Stroke in diesel.
..............
Can you explain this a bit more for the less technically aware, especially regarding the viscosity.

I use Castrol 2T, not a marine 2 stroke, does this avoid the ammonia issue.

Cheers,

Peter
have a look through some of the oil sites.
there is no ammonia issue. afaik the whole issue is because some of the components smell like ammonia hence how the myth started. there is no ammonia in the oil.

viscosity is not an issue. there is so little 2 stroke in it, it won't change the viscosity. you get more change with temp than you do by adding a little bit of oil.

the only down sides that i have seen reported is a few people saying it does nothing in their engines and one that reported egt's spiking high. the temps where so high that the motor should have blown up so more than likely it was a gauge problem.
the main downsides is cost and overdosing, so using as little as possible fixes that.
 

·
Gone Fishing
NISSAN 1989 GQ PATROL
Joined
·
6,203 Posts
I agree. NO downsides, Quater teaspoon 2T Mineral too Roughly a cup of diesel. Diesel is the first crap part of refinement, It's rubbish that explodes under pressure, Ever seen diesel that ships run on its like porridge/sludge. I like many add it for lube where its been prooven to work. I get the other benefits of less smoke,clatter and Mileage, not placebo affect! Allways fill at same pump etc. and getting 2-3 litres better milage per 100 K's. More ammonia probly goes in through the air we suck in thats polluted.
 

·
Registered
Nissan
Joined
·
259 Posts
if u fill up at decent places like BP they use quality fuels?
 

·
What Have I Done?
nissan
Joined
·
5,122 Posts
Yeah, im sorta over the hypo of having used it for a week or so, im deffinately not impressed with the increase in fuel consumption.
Dont get me wrong, the engine feels so so much smoother, and less noisy at idle,
But FFS, it really does burn that much more. the needle is on warp speed compared to prior use.
For the simple fact i need to stretch out the economy, i'll suffer with a bit of noise,
and only use quality fuels like shaunjonesdoes !!

Was a great experiment, but yeah... im lookin forward to it being out of my fuel system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,837 Posts
if u fill up at decent places like BP they use quality fuels?
yeah right !
a lot of it depends on the actual gas station. ie how much water is in the tank, how much petrol is accidentally put in and anything dodgy like tipping in methanol/oil/petrol etc.

Yeah, im sorta over the hypo of having used it for a week or so, im deffinately not impressed with the increase in fuel consumption.
Dont get me wrong, the engine feels so so much smoother, and less noisy at idle,
But FFS, it really does burn that much more. the needle is on warp speed compared to prior use.
For the simple fact i need to stretch out the economy, i'll suffer with a bit of noise,
and only use quality fuels like shaunjonesdoes !!

Was a great experiment, but yeah... im lookin forward to it being out of my fuel system.
sounds like your putting far to much in. to much will make it use more fuel.
personally i don't see any real change in economy nor expect any.

i think the 2 stroke is a bit like adding petrol to diesel. makes it burn a little bit quicker, after all the 2 stoke oil is meant to be burnt with petrol but it doesn't have the nasty side effects petrol has.
 

·
Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
Joined
·
48,269 Posts
Yeah, im sorta over the hypo of having used it for a week or so, im deffinately not impressed with the increase in fuel consumption.
Dont get me wrong, the engine feels so so much smoother, and less noisy at idle,
But FFS, it really does burn that much more. the needle is on warp speed compared to prior use.
For the simple fact i need to stretch out the economy, i'll suffer with a bit of noise,
and only use quality fuels like shaunjonesdoes !!

Was a great experiment, but yeah... im lookin forward to it being out of my fuel system.
I do not understand the negative effect you are experiencing, this goes against the grain of the majorities experience and logic, unless your dose rate was too high or something wrong with the oil.

There has been no impact on fuel eco for me at all either negative or positive, just smoothness and quietness, same for my friends and colleagues who use it. Strange! And I've been using it for some time.

if u fill up at decent places like BP they use quality fuels?
With low sulphur content! one of the reasons for using 2T.
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
154 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Mate there is no downside to using 2T as long as it is mineral and not synthetic. It has been tested by Mercedes and a few others, and the trick has been around for eons. From our point of view, the sulphur content goes towards making up for what was dropped from diesel some years ago, not quite so important for later models but if it is shutting my fuel pump up then that's good enough for me and proves it is doing something good. There is absolutely no evidence I have seen anywhere of harm being done.
Hi,

I love the 2T and use it in every fill. I haven't found any detrimental effects on fuel consumption, though i don't measure every tank. I was just interested in Benno's comments.

Peter.
 

·
Gone Fishing
NISSAN 1989 GQ PATROL
Joined
·
6,203 Posts
Hi,

I love the 2T and use it in every fill. I haven't found any detrimental effects on fuel consumption, though i don't measure every tank. I was just interested in Benno's comments.

Peter.
Tweak answered it! No ammonia in it! Good to hear you like using it. This thread is great but alot are going off the original reason for the 2T being lubrication for the fuel system! Not to get better mileage etc.etc. Thats something some found after a few tanks of using it! Including me, Some dont get these extra's. Even without the better economy id'e still be using it to lube up the IP seals/O-rings etc. Just to probably give some more time before i need to recon. the IP.:)
 

·
Gone Fishing
NISSAN 1989 GQ PATROL
Joined
·
6,203 Posts
[
because i am really dissapointed after all ive read up . 200:1 Its all through what youve read up!!:)
 

·
Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
Joined
·
48,269 Posts
You guys may be 100% correct,
how much to a tank,
in the main, and into the subtank??
because i am really dissapointed after all ive read up .

Please understand my frustration.

but i do agree, the truck feels ridiculously far better.

just that economy has dived dramatically
I have a sliding scale built into my frontal lobe, I know how much fuel the vehicle will take on (within 3 to 4 litres) and dose each tank accordingly, I have used 200-1 but am currently using 250-1 which came from a Mercedes trial, and it still feels the same.

Tweaks, we are going have to stop this synchronised posting, have a look at the times.............
 

·
Learned the hard way - RD28t out TD42 in
Joined
·
4,415 Posts
I've tried the 2 stroke trick, I perceived that the engine sounded quieter, as to other effects, more power, greater economy, I have my doubts. Maybe there was an effect, but it never paid for the cost of the oil IMO and of course the placebo thing kicks in, yes you WANT to see it work, so you go looking for excuses. I then got to thinking, why do I want the engine to sound quieter ? Who cares, it's a diesel and a lovely sounding one at that, leave well alone. So I now use straight pump diesel or veg oil when I can get it and am happy. YMMV as they say, but do stand back and ask yourself some serious questions, for 1, how can 2 stroke oil at a 200:1 ratio make any difference ? If the motor is quieter, it is probably due to the combustion process being smoothed out, is this a good thing ? Does it matter ? Those who claim improved economy and power delivery, prove it properly, I doubt anyone can. Even those who insist they can, does this not suggest there is something not quite right with the timing or something else on your motor to run pump diesel ?
 

·
Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
Joined
·
48,269 Posts
I've tried the 2 stroke trick, yes the engine sounded quieter, as to other effects, more power, greater economy, I have my doubts. Maybe there was an effect, but it never paid for the cost of the oil IMO and of course the placebo thing kicks in, yes you WANT to see it work. I then got to thinking, why do I want the engine to sound quieter ? Who cares, it's a diesel and a lovely sounding one at that. So I use straight pump diesel now or veg oil when I can get it and am happy. YMMV as they say, but do stand back and ask yourself some serious questions, for 1, how can 2 stroke oil at a 200:1 ratio make any difference ? If the motor is quieter, it is probably due to the combustion process being smoothed out, is this a good thing ? Does it matter ? Those who claim improved economy, prove it properly, I doubt anyone can. Even those who insist they can, does this not suggest there is something not quite right with the timing or something else on your motor ?
Agree to a certain extent, sometimes too much is expected. As has been posted a trillion times the main reason for using 2T is pump lubricity, particularly with low sulphur fuels, another reason for its use is to smooth out the difference between fuel types particularly in areas where fuel quality may be questionable. I am quite happy for the fuel pump to sound a bit quieter, particularly on the startup of my 2000 build where I notice it the most.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,195 Posts
as i said on the thread about 2 stroke. i started going a bit silly,Ended up putting like 200ml into 1/4 a tank on my old mq a few times in a row. I can say 100% that there was alot less diesel knock when started in the morning,alot less noise when driving and it ran slightly smoother. i didnt feel any performance i dont think,but it was smoother. if i still had the old girl i would put 10ltrs of 2 stroke in it and run it on that as a experiment but i sold it :)
 

·
Learned the hard way - RD28t out TD42 in
Joined
·
4,415 Posts
Nicely put Glort. I did an experiment of sorts by running with and without the 2T, and I've got to say, after a few tank fulls, I couldn't tell the difference !

The effect of the slower burn rate, reduced bang thing, surely that means the timing could be advanced to compensate to realise the full benefits of the new fuel mix ie, the effect of the fuel mix is to slow the combustion process effectively retarding it from the straight diesel. Or are we seeing the effect of a more constant pressure, less peaky burn ? In your many years of running on WVO Glort, have you a figure in mind as to how much the timing could be moved ? I also note from the many wise words of Oldmav, he suggests that the TD42 likes a bit of timing advance, ie it's conservative from the factory. Advance the timing you guys running 2T, just listen to the noise levels rise !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,955 Posts
One thing that hasnt been mentioned is what it would do to a gas analyser when being dyno tuned?
I would hate to poison an expensive sensor.
For that reason I thoroughly flush my system before taking the it to the tuner.

I've been using 200:1 which is 100ml per jerry can, 500ml in a fresh full tank from bone dry, 400ml a fill from "empty".

I dont care about noise either. People seem to be frightened to go near it with the bonnet open, too much is still too much. Timing is advanced, pump has had a lot done to it.
IN fact the only definite change I've noticed is a weird smell to the exhaust.
The only reason I run it is it might help with upper cylinder lubrication.
 

·
Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
Joined
·
48,269 Posts
One thing that hasnt been mentioned is what it would do to a gas analyser when being dyno tuned?
I would hate to poison an expensive sensor.
For that reason I thoroughly flush my system before taking the it to the tuner.

I've been using 200:1 which is 100ml per jerry can, 500ml in a fresh full tank from bone dry, 400ml a fill from "empty".

I dont care about noise either. People seem to be frightened to go near it with the bonnet open, too much is still too much. Timing is advanced, pump has had a lot done to it.
IN fact the only definite change I've noticed is a weird smell to the exhaust.
The only reason I run it is it might help with upper cylinder lubrication.
Dyno'd twice and nothing blew up, so that's that one gone!

Love your red calipers, what paint did you use?
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top