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Y61=WIN
nissan
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Discussion Starter #1
Gday,

I'm quite impressed with your product, how you describe why your product is good, and I'm looking to buy a new exhaust system soon. I have a series 7 GU ZD30CRD wagon. Some questions please:

* Why fit a 200 CPI metal cat when as far as I know, everyone who cares about it runs 100 CPI cats? Can I get a metal not ceramic 100 CPI cat?

* You make mention of diesel specific cats? What are the factors in play here? How is the design different in a diesel cat?

* Im quite impressed with your stainless material specification and the ceramic coating. Ive been worried about a dump pipe being fabricated with no heat shielding, but I believe that by ceramic coating the efficiency would be even better as clearly the heat loss would be less in ceramic coated dump pipes than the OEM heat shielding. Is it too expensive to get the whole exhaust ceramic coated? I know some race cars wrap theres all the way to keep the heat into the exhaust and maximise efficiency. Is doing the whole exhaust little gain for allot of effort?

* Second question on ceramic coated dump pipe, do I assume right the OEM heat shielding will no longer fit?

* Have you measured the DB using the standard noise test procedure on the three kits you sell? It would be helpfull to know how loud it is with the test results. Especially the product just using the cat and no muffler compared to the product with cat and muffler.

* No resonator in your products? Whats the experience youve had here? Is it a gimmick? Do resonators have a performance impact?

* I have big bore remote reseviour aftermarket shocks, a massive bash plate along the transmission area, a kaymar rear bar and I also have the superior engineering rear coil tower brace kit. Do you know if your products are compatible?

* The final question and the most important for me. The whole reason I'm forced to "fix" the exhaust now is because I was offroad with the rear of the vehicle hard up against a vertical mud bank. I had to be snatch strapped backwards to get me out of the bog hole no recovery was possible in a forward direction. What happened is that the mud put pressure on the exhaust tip as the vehicle was being snatched backwards and the force become so strong it fully bent my OEM exhaust, with the piping getting all crimpled and onto the rear left tyre - bent it into a pretzel. We had to unbolt the exhaust system right from the front flange after the cats to drive home. Now I realise there is physical limits as well as legal limits as to where the exhaust tip can go, but this is a critical design aspect for me now on how I "fix" the OEM problem exhaust routing. I know it has to vent past the furtherst opening door being the wagon door by law, but I think there is a solution there somewhere. I've been concerned Im going to end up having to get a custom kit made instead of off the shelf because of this. I'd much rather just bolt a high quality kit on like yours if possible and save time and money.

I need to fix the exhaust soon, the right product will get my $$$$ :D
 

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nissan
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Wow! Lotsa technical questions - some that I can't answer straight away (after market compatibility etc). I will put together a comprehensive answer when I get a few spare minutes ;). And sorry its taken a few days for me to notice your post. I guess I've been relying on email notices of posts and missed your completely new thread.

Cheers
Richard
 

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Hi Nullack

See my replies in RED ...

Gday,

I'm quite impressed with your product, how you describe why your product is good, and I'm looking to buy a new exhaust system soon. I have a series 7 GU ZD30CRD wagon. Some questions please:

* Why fit a 200 CPI metal cat when as far as I know, everyone who cares about it runs 100 CPI cats? Can I get a metal not ceramic 100 CPI cat?

We found 100 cell is prone to boost spiking on this engine. We initially used a 100 cell but went to a 200 cell cat that is European certified. The issue is having the right flow for each engine ... one that allows a freer flow for extra performance but still contributes the right amount of back pressure so the turbo doesn't boost spike. That "right flow" involves a lot of variables - the flow design of the dump, the type of cat, the distance of the cat from the turbo, the thermal retention within the dump (cooling gas contracts and slows). You may not want a 100 cell cat after you read the answer to next question.

* You make mention of diesel specific cats? What are the factors in play here? How is the design different in a diesel cat?

Our cat is a heavy duty build with a stainless-core (not ceramic-core) which is why we call it a diesel cat (to differentiate it from the bulk of cheap cats out there) and why we can offer a 10 year warranty on our cats. Everyone else only offers 1 year warranty (at best) on their cats. Despite being 200 cell our cats are high flow. This high flow is achieved by being a lot bigger diameter than the cheaper 100 cell cats.

Cats are a significant cost in an exhaust and many competitors use cheap 100 cell ceramic-core cats to reduce the overall price of their exhausts. Of course they don't last long and that's why they don't carry more than a years warranty - or no warranty at all in many cases. But they've already sold you the exhaust so their objective is achieved.

* Im quite impressed with your stainless material specification and the ceramic coating. Ive been worried about a dump pipe being fabricated with no heat shielding, but I believe that by ceramic coating the efficiency would be even better as clearly the heat loss would be less in ceramic coated dump pipes than the OEM heat shielding. Is it too expensive to get the whole exhaust ceramic coated?

Yes - the lengths are often too long to coat economically.

I know some race cars wrap theres all the way to keep the heat into the exhaust and maximise efficiency. Is doing the whole exhaust little gain for allot of effort?

Yes you're bang on.

* Second question on ceramic coated dump pipe, do I assume right the OEM heat shielding will no longer fit?

Correct. But some guys cut and modify the heat shield to have both shield and ceramic.

* Have you measured the DB using the standard noise test procedure on the three kits you sell? It would be helpfull to know how loud it is with the test results. Especially the product just using the cat and no muffler compared to the product with cat and muffler.

By law you are required to have a cat and muffler to comply with emissions (cat) and noise control (muffler) when driving on-road. Our systems comply with the law and are only a few DB above the OEM. The pitch (not to be mistaken for volume which is what DB measures) can be quite different between OEM and our systems - that's a lot of what turns heads and makes our exhausts so popular :D. Actual DB measurements vary between different engines (obviously) but can also vary between two seemingly identical vehicles. I'm thinking that you are probably already aware of most of this but I'm including explanations for the benefit of others reading this.

* No resonator in your products? Whats the experience youve had here? Is it a gimmick? Do resonators have a performance impact?

By resonator I assume you mean a small second muffler (usually placed after the main muffler). In most cases our mufflers are megaflow (high-flow) straight-through designs in and have little to no effect on performance. Adding an additional resonator (small second muffler) only affects sound not performance. Adding a resonator would make it quieter. On most turbo diesels the second muffler is not necessary. And most of our customers want a bit more sound and a better pitched sound from their exhaust. Many guys are going for the Berserker option (no-muffler) and loving it. It only takes a few minutes (4 bolts) to change out the muffler section with the Berserker pipe and you can express your wild side! BTW we currently offering a FREE BERSERKER pipe with each system.

* I have big bore remote reseviour aftermarket shocks, a massive bash plate along the transmission area, a kaymar rear bar and I also have the superior engineering rear coil tower brace kit. Do you know if your products are compatible?
Our system will fit with your after market equipment.

* The final question and the most important for me. The whole reason I'm forced to "fix" the exhaust now is because I was offroad with the rear of the vehicle hard up against a vertical mud bank. I had to be snatch strapped backwards to get me out of the bog hole no recovery was possible in a forward direction. What happened is that the mud put pressure on the exhaust tip as the vehicle was being snatched backwards and the force become so strong it fully bent my OEM exhaust, with the piping getting all crimpled and onto the rear left tyre - bent it into a pretzel. We had to unbolt the exhaust system right from the front flange after the cats to drive home. Now I realise there is physical limits as well as legal limits as to where the exhaust tip can go, but this is a critical design aspect for me now on how I "fix" the OEM problem exhaust routing. I know it has to vent past the furtherst opening door being the wagon door by law, but I think there is a solution there somewhere. I've been concerned Im going to end up having to get a custom kit made instead of off the shelf because of this. I'd much rather just bolt a high quality kit on like yours if possible and save time and money.

Our exhausts are designed for off-road work and maximum departure angle and still allow for fit with many mods and realistic undercarriage clearance. We are also happy to provide extra bends for the tail if you are not happy with the tail clearance.

I need to fix the exhaust soon, the right product will get my $$$$ :D
Cheers
Richard
 

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Y61=WIN
nissan
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Discussion Starter #4
Ok thanks mate youve won yourself a sale. I hope its now obvious to everyone on this forum how your product is superior to lesser offerings. Some points please:

1. Was the 100 CPI cat boost spiking on a CRD engine or the prior engine? I have a CRD if the boost control problems was on the prior engine, can I get a 100 CPI cat please? I really dont see how anything but nothing after the turbine is optimal??

2. Im trying to work out the piping and angles so I dont have another failure if I have to snatch strap backwards again. You cant imagine the money this has cost me....Two air bags, the exhaust itself etcetc. How can I visualise where the exhaust will dump in your stock design? Do you have a photo?
 

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Nissan Patrol GU iii
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Nullack,

I'll grab a pic of mine tomorrow for you, mines a 4.2 though, but it sits up MUCH higher and out of the way compared to the original exhaust. The engine note is quite satisfying, trouble being I'm a bit more inclined to give it a boot now :D

I was well impressed with the path it snakes through underneath.

I put a few pics up in Genies vendor section http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/genie-performance-exhausts-pty-ltd-105/mates-rates-legendex-259673/index3.html there are some before, during, and after installation pics. A fair few of the heat shielding and dump pipes.

Scottie
 

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Nullack, I purchased the 3" Legendex system with cat last week for my 2013 Y61 Patrol. I hope to fit this weekend so will try and take some pics for you then.
I am surprised the dump is 2,1/4" off the turbo into cat and then 3" out of cat for the rest of system. I presume its to stop the overboosting issues from earlier models.
 

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Here's a couple of pics of where it sits, they aren't the best quality as I got home after sunset.

Mine's a GU3 4.2. It sits up higher than fuel tank and towbar on mine. I'd be interested to see where it sits with kaymar bar.

Also after driving it for a couple of weeks I am very happy with it.

Scottie
 

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2013 GU Patrol ZD30CRD pics

hi Nullack, here are a few pics of exhaust installed on mine. I found it easier to remove the vnt diaphragm and bracket to get to the heat shield. Is 2 nuts, c clip and 3 bolts, about 15 mins work. The dump runs close to the rear aircon pipes, but I managed to bend slightly to improve clearance and added two cables as well. The rear pipe sits above the towbar so shouldn't cause any issues. I hope. :)
let me know if you need any further info.
 

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Hey GeroGU my turbo looks really rusty compared to yours, infact all exposed metal on my engine had surface rust from the factory hmm
mine has only done 18,000 kms. :) Apart from the chit shaken out of it on the Canning Stock route hasn't been offroad much and I usually avoid mud if possible.
 

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Y61=WIN
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Discussion Starter #12
Cool Ill be making my order in the morning Monday. I think this is the best off the shelf bolt on exhaust available for CRD 3L patrol wagons. In a perfect world I'd go true 3" all the way through, with a 100 CPI metal cat, and manage any boost control issues through other devices to hold a rock steady boost level. I have reason to believe the ideal turbo diesel exhaust is zero restriction after the turbine and the turbine alone is enough restriction for the whole system. However thats all more money and time and fiddling around, so Im going with this being confident my boost control will still be in hand. Its not like Im racing this thing and neev every marginal improvement possible.
 

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hi Nullack, here are a few pics of exhaust installed on mine. I found it easier to remove the vnt diaphragm and bracket to get to the heat shield. Is 2 nuts, c clip and 3 bolts, about 15 mins work. The dump runs close to the rear aircon pipes, but I managed to bend slightly to improve clearance and added two cables as well. The rear pipe sits above the towbar so shouldn't cause any issues. I hope. :)
let me know if you need any further info.
Hi Gero,

That's a great post - thanks. I have been talking to our tech guys and they advise caution. While removing the diaphragm makes removal of the heat shield much easier, we don't recommend it. Here's why ...

  • This method requires an intermediate level of mechanical skill and goes beyond what we present in our installation instructions.
  • There is a chance the adjustment on the diaphragm could be accidentally knocked or changed which could alter the boost pressure to undesired levels.
  • Your method is a shorter route but we advise taking the longer but safer route.
Thanks for posting the great pics showing our system and clearances.

Cheers
Richard
 

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Cool Ill be making my order in the morning Monday. I think this is the best off the shelf bolt on exhaust available for CRD 3L patrol wagons. In a perfect world I'd go true 3" all the way through, with a 100 CPI metal cat, and manage any boost control issues through other devices to hold a rock steady boost level. I have reason to believe the ideal turbo diesel exhaust is zero restriction after the turbine and the turbine alone is enough restriction for the whole system. However thats all more money and time and fiddling around, so Im going with this being confident my boost control will still be in hand. Its not like Im racing this thing and neev every marginal improvement possible.
Hi Nullack

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Cheers
Richard
 

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Y61=WIN
nissan
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Discussion Starter #15
To follow through on this

Have no issues with build quality, shipping went fine and Im happy overall with the sound. The install required fiddling with the air con hosing a bit by the workshop that fitted it, but theres no issue with clearances / fouling and zero air con problems.

Be warned, while I take in good faith to be true that this system was tested with numerous prototypes not to boost spike, the only way I can explain that is that the test CRD vehicle did not have a blocked EGR system. Mines been blocked since new from the dealer. At full throttle the boost is fine and stable. At partial throttle at speed where the egr system would ordinarily kick in, the boost spiking is very bad and is hitting unsafe levels over speeding the turbo and forcing too hot air into the engine 28 psi+

Your going to have to take immediate action if you have blocked egr and this exhaust with something like a dawes valve to properly control the boost. The design of this exhaust is very good and this is not a problem Im blaming genie on, its just a simple fact that will occur on certain vehicles with certain mods. On the positive side, this exhaust flows so much better....even when I ripped half my OEM exhaust off and had it venting near the front seats with zero muffler and resonator I didnt need to deal with boost spike. So it flows heaps more than even half the OEM exhaust :) No boost spike occurred with half the restrictive OEM exhaust LOL
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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To follow through on this

Have no issues with build quality, shipping went fine and Im happy overall with the sound. The install required fiddling with the air con hosing a bit by the workshop that fitted it, but theres no issue with clearances / fouling and zero air con problems.

Be warned, while I take in good faith to be true that this system was tested with numerous prototypes not to boost spike, the only way I can explain that is that the test CRD vehicle did not have a blocked EGR system. Mines been blocked since new from the dealer. At full throttle the boost is fine and stable. At partial throttle at speed where the egr system would ordinarily kick in, the boost spiking is very bad and is hitting unsafe levels over speeding the turbo and forcing too hot air into the engine 28 psi+

Your going to have to take immediate action if you have blocked egr and this exhaust with something like a dawes valve to properly control the boost. The design of this exhaust is very good and this is not a problem Im blaming genie on, its just a simple fact that will occur on certain vehicles with certain mods. On the positive side, this exhaust flows so much better....even when I ripped half my OEM exhaust off and had it venting near the front seats with zero muffler and resonator I didnt need to deal with boost spike. So it flows heaps more than even half the OEM exhaust :) No boost spike occurred with half the restrictive OEM exhaust LOL
Time to fit that needle valve you have on the shelf and bypass the vacuum solenoid.
 
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