[geordie4x4]

Who uses soft shackles, or strap lanyards or any other good ideas to prevent flying objects if a recovery strap were to fail.

There seems to be a lot of discussion on rated recovery points, which is good, but I got to thinking what about the gear attached to the recovery point. New ideas and technology should make things safer like the soft shackles etc but I have never actually seen one of these used.

Watching a you-tube video the other day of a failed recovery where a strap and shackle goes through the back window it really made me think there has to be some better safe ways to attach recovery gear and lessen the chances of accidents caused by flying recovery hooks or shackles or snatch straps, I thought it might be a good idea to look at options for using safety leash, lanyard and other ideas.

I was messing around with a spare short piece of Dynema splicing an end loop and it made me think it might be easy to make a short lanyard to attach to a snatch strap as a secondary attachment to slow down or stop the strap or shackle if something let go.



Below are some images from a strap maker Secure Tech in Zambia that makes strap lanyards but I have never seen anything like this used in Australia.

 

[Laurie 42td]

It's sad but I can't even remember the last time I used my snatch strap... Or winch for that matter. A couple of soft shackles are on my wish list though.

 

[Boundry Rider]

I like the idea of a lanyard

 

[trolling]

Wouldn't the speed of the broken strap take it through the loops of the lanyard before it could grip it. In the photo the loops look fairly open.

I have often thought the same about a lot of winch dampers.

Fortunately I haven't been involved with either of the above breakages, although I have had an old winch extension strap fail while hand winching out some trees and the speed of the strap was amazing.

 

[joet]

If something let's go i very much doubt it'll come back out of that loop. When they do the spring back in more of a arck.

I use soft shackles, easy as to use. But after few uses i can see defiant wear marks so i I am wondering about there life span with heavy use. Saying that I'd still only replace with another soft shackle i think there great. And huge eaay weight saver.
1 thing to watch some of the cheaper 1 are thicker in size to get the same rating so it harder to get in recovery hooks

 

[joet]

Just add the reason the loop would be slack over the strap is to avoid a weak spot, having it tight around the strap would have similar effect as a knot in a strap.

 

[GQshayne]

Soft shackles are on my wish list, but at the moment they are a bit pricey. When more retailers sell them I will get some I think. Seem like a great idea.

 

[Thrasher]

I liked the concept of the soft shackles and I was lucky enough to be given a sample one a couple of years ago.

The reality wasn't as good as the promise.

They are a pain to use in muddy conditions and they wear too quickly.

I am sticking with good old fashioned shackles. I have never had a shackle fail, nor have I had a recovery point fail. I have had extension straps and snatch straps break during recoveries, when this has happened it was only ever the strap hitting the vehicle.

 

[geordie4x4]

Wouldn't the speed of the broken strap take it through the loops of the lanyard before it could grip it. In the photo the loops look fairly open.

I have often thought the same about a lot of winch dampers.

Fortunately I haven't been involved with either of the above breakages, although I have had an old winch extension strap fail while hand winching out some trees and the speed of the strap was amazing.

This is quite an interesting video from Ronny Dahl, snapping winch cables. It is not done super scientifically and just uses shop dummies rather than Mythbusters "Buster" type human crash test dummies to simulate human injury, but gives a very good idea of what happens to a flying cable or shackle. When you watch the first part where the cable snaps and fly's straight through the winch cable dampers left sitting on the ground. They did very little to slow the cable, however, they were empty and should actually be weighted with sand for proper damping. In reality how many people bother to fill the damper bags with sand.

He also tests a Dynema winch rope at full breaking load (If you want to skip through to near the end of the video) The Dynema rope still recoils with a hell of a lot more force than I had expected to see, but I would rather have rope with far less weight than cable and no shackle or steel hook flying through the air. I do not use a winch hook, only a shackle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97XqNX3yFTk

If something let's go i very much doubt it'll come back out of that loop. When they do the spring back in more of a arck.

I use soft shackles, easy as to use. But after few uses i can see defiant wear marks so i I am wondering about there life span with heavy use. Saying that I'd still only replace with another soft shackle i think there great. And huge eaay weight saver.
1 thing to watch some of the cheaper 1 are thicker in size to get the same rating so it harder to get in recovery hooks

Yes I think that is the case a lot of the time, the rope, cable or snatch strap itself recoils in a straight line but the weight of the end join, splice, end eye, hook or shackle is flicked out as the break failure will deflect it in one way or another depending on how the break occurs. So although the rope or strap may fly straight hopefully the heavy end is caught by the lanyard and at the very least it slows it down taking a lot of the momentum out before it hits anything (or hopefully not anyone).

Just add the reason the loop would be slack over the strap is to avoid a weak spot, having it tight around the strap would have similar effect as a knot in a strap.

Yes I think that's a good point. I figure that during the snatch strap stretch and recoil you don't want the lanyard to pull tight and actually cause the load to be transferred to the lanyard as that could cause a weak point or possible failure.

A few years ago there was one brand of snatch strap that advertised to have a built in or stitched in lanyard both ends (I can't remember which it was now).

 

[geordie4x4]

Regarding Soft Shackles:

I use soft shackles, easy as to use. But after few uses i can see defiant wear marks so i I am wondering about there life span with heavy use. Saying that I'd still only replace with another soft shackle i think there great. And huge eaay weight saver.
1 thing to watch some of the cheaper 1 are thicker in size to get the same rating so it harder to get in recovery hooks

I liked the concept of the soft shackles and I was lucky enough to be given a sample one a couple of years ago.

The reality wasn't as good as the promise.

They are a pain to use in muddy conditions and they wear too quickly.

I am sticking with good old fashioned shackles. I have never had a shackle fail, nor have I had a recovery point fail. I have had extension straps and snatch straps break during recoveries, when this has happened it was only ever the strap hitting the vehicle.

Good feedback thanks guys. I have been looking at various different soft shackles and wondering how and where or when I would use them over a standard type rated bow shackle. The wear factor or wear out factor as it were is not ideal, particularly as my two rated front recovery points have quite sharp square edges in the attachment holes.

I have been aware of soft shackles used in yachting for over twenty years and I have used them in underwater recovery lifting equipment. But had never seen them in the right sort of size for 4WD recovery gear use. I have read some comments that they are not suitable for snatch strap recoveries, I am not certain of why that would be.

Soft shackles are on my wish list, but at the moment they are a bit pricey. When more retailers sell them I will get some I think. Seem like a great idea.

Looking at a few different brands I see some use a different head knot. The Button head knot is what I have used on yachting rigging and underwater gear as it has no cut ends in the knot, but the cut ends feed back through and are spliced into or threaded back and tapered into the hollow core in the case of Dynema type rope. The cheap Soft Shackles I have been seeing on Ebay and even in the OL shop have two cut ends that are heat cut and melted back into the head of the knot, I don't like this for a number of reasons. First it is a point of failure where the cut end can start to pull back into the knot and break or pull through. Second it is a hard and rough melted rope end that catches on the fibres of the critical loop section as you feed it back through and therefore wears it, breaks fibres and weakens it. I would or will look for ones with no cut ends. Look at this video or fast forward through as it is fairly long and you will see what I mean about the better type of knot with no cut ends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91_jEjQdlBU

 

[geordie4x4]

Boat rigging shop soft shackle

OK I found some that are made for yachting, by Boz Racing. This is what I was talking about above, these have both ends of the knot spliced back into the main length of the rope and no cut end sticking out the top of the knot.

Pair from BozRacing $65
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-x-11m...m=273521643885&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109


Cheap (cheap low quality brand) 4WD supply soft shackle

Here is one from RoadSafe, not particularly cheap at $65 but still made with the cut ends out the top of the knot, not ideal in my opinion anyway.

 

[Overboard]

There seems to be a lot of discussion on rated recovery points, which is good,

I keep hearing about rated recovery points but nobody can tell me what they should be rated at, nor can anyone tell me what the chassis is rated at where they bolt on.

 

[geordie4x4]

I keep hearing about rated recovery points but nobody can tell me what they should be rated at, nor can anyone tell me what the chassis is rated at where they bolt on.

Yes that's a good point, the chassis is only 2 mm thick or possibly not even that. Is there any need to have like 10 mm or more plate bolted to such a thin chassis on one surface. As far as I know, there is no Australian Standard that relates to vehicle recovery points, nor an ADR.

The ARB recovery point says it's "rated for use with a 4.75t rated bow shackle and 8000 kg snatch strap".
The Road Safe says "WLL 5000 kg".
TJM say they test the recovery points to 8000 kg with two attachment points when it is part of their winch mount bull bar.

One of the things I like about some of the better designed recovery points is to pick up two attachment planes so it is bolted vertically to the factory tow hook point and horizontally to the factory tie down point as well.

 

[Overboard]

One of the things I like about some of the better designed recovery points is to pick up two attachment planes so it is bolted vertically to the factory tow hook point and horizontally to the factory tie down point as well.

That depends on what model Patrol you have. I think it's only series 4 GUs onwards that can use the two planes of mounting.

I've never used a safety leash however I've never broken a snatch strap, but for that matter I've rarely needed to use one.

 

[Thrasher]

I keep hearing about rated recovery points but nobody can tell me what they should be rated at, nor can anyone tell me what the chassis is rated at where they bolt on.

Yes as an industry the 4WD parts manufacturers/sellers have done themselves no favors in this area.

There is no "rated" recovery gear. The ratings are for lifting equipment, which we use for recovery gear. This isn't a new revelation. I can remember these discussions taking place in the late 90's. It really is a shame none of the component manufacturers has pushed for Australian Standards for recovery gear.

Interesting you bring up where the recovery points are mounted to. One of the first things that the scrutineers look at in 4WD competitions is how the recovery points are mounted. There is usually some very strict guidelines in the rule books about that. Many comps insist on the bolts being sleeved with a welded in tube (crush tube) across the chassis rails. I don't know many shops that do that when they fit recovery points out of a packet.

 

[Boundry Rider]

I only rate what I fabricate lol. These are 14-4, which is 4 tonne vertical 14 tonne horizontal I believe.
For big pull I use a tree strap or a chain attached to both sides to save the racking effect on the chassis, but my chassis is well boxed up anyhow, due to the winch frame being separate inside the chassis from the bar mounts.

 

[rgren2]

Slightly O/T, the other day I saw a 100 series with a chain (looked like galvanised chain) that was shackled to both front recovery points and a D shackle swinging from that. I was pondering all the faults of this system to be on the vehicle whilst driving around and when requiring recovery.

 

[AndrieK]

I keep hearing about rated recovery points but nobody can tell me what they should be rated at, nor can anyone tell me what the chassis is rated at where they bolt on.

Same here. I have a slightly different opinion when it comes to rating recovery points. IMO for "normal" use (i.e. not competition) you want the recovery point to act like a fuse. There's no point in having the ARB style 20mm plate recovery points bolted on with 6x M14 bolts, because they will destroy the chassis resulting in potentially expensive repair.

Towbar safety chain attachments that are rated to AS4177 for instance, are allowed to deform, but must hold the load (be it static). I'd rather have my recovery points bend or deform above maximum load than having the chassis ripped open like a tin can. For that reason I see no point in going bigger / stronger than the relatively common 10mm plate style recovery points like the Roadsafe ones.

 

[Overboard]

There is no "rated" recovery gear. The ratings are for lifting equipment, which we use for recovery gear.

Agreed that a lot of lifting gear is used for recoveries and the rated working load limit for lifting gear is at least 5 times its tested failure load. Instead of using the minimum required safety factor of 5 some manufacturers have adopted there own safety factors of 6 or even 10 times the minimum failure load. Most snatch straps are also rated but it is a minimum breaking strain rating. Consequently a 5,000kg rated snatch strap may fail at 5,500kg but a 5,000kg rated shackle will hold 25,000kg. Interestingly independent tests have shown that many snatch straps fail before their minimum breaking strain is reached.

I have no idea what the rating of a recovery point even means let alone what rating is good enough. I just think it is a bit funny that so many people are adamant that recovery points should be rated but then can't tell you what that rating should be. I just want all my stuff to be stronger than a heavy duty snatch strap so that when I pull someone else out using their strap the first thing that will break is the strap.

 

[geordie4x4]

Sounds like most of you are of the same opinion as me that the recovery point and chassis support attachment should be strong enough to far exceed the breaking strain of the strap or winch rope. I would rather have something soft break than a hardware component go flying through the air.

@AndrieK, I get what you are saying about a recovery point may deform, but that is or should be an extreme case and yes better that than the chassis torn out, but still better for a soft component to give way first. I remember snatch straps and some winch extension straps used to have indicator stitching that shows a different colour, or a red line shows on a tag stitched into the strap, if the strap has been over stressed stretched and the stitching starts to pull before the strap should break. But I don't see any of them advertise this feature anymore, maybe it was a feature too hard to build in a well controlled fashion during manufacture.


For now I think I will be sticking with the 4.75T shackles to attach to my recovery points at front as the edges are too sharp for a soft shackle. At the rear I use a Reese type hitch receiver and have two extra tow points on the Kaymar bar.

But when I get hold of some more short lengths of Dynema, I will have a go at making myself some simple lanyard type safety straps. Something that is usable in a multiple situations to loop around a strap and attach to a different point to the main recovery point, just as a bit of extra protection. Or even to attach as a loose loop between the join if two snatch straps are used linked together.

After watching Ronny Dahl's video I don't have a lot of faith in the bag type damper things. Might have to investigate other options, such as a dynema lanyard tied to the damper so it can't allow the strap or cable to just pull straight through.