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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
EDIT: We have come a long way since I started this thread, it is now fact and done here in Oz, had mine done and it's fanbloodytastic. Details further into the thread.

The possibility of reflashing the DI ECU was raised in discussion in another thread, and I think it deserves its own spot. I have contacted the Company in question and have received a reply this morning, here it is:


[FONT=&quot]Hello,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We can remap the Patrol 3.0 DI 158PS model. It involves replacing the eprom chips on the ecu board with updated remapped software.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We can only alter the fuelling amount request, no other parameters can be altered like boost or limp thresholds.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Best Regards[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stuart[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Stuart Banfield[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Operations Director[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Quantum Tuning Ltd[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 The Ridgeway - Iver - Bucks - SL0 9HW - UK [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tel[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
01895 - 323093[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Out of Office [/FONT][FONT=&quot]: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
01895 - 546253[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Email[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: [/FONT][FONT=&quot][email protected][/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Web[/FONT][FONT=&quot]:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] www.QuantumTuning.co.uk[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So, it still leaves us with our limp zones, which probably makes the JayCar Maf voltage unit or the UniChip the best methods of controlling limp. If anyone else has other info on this please let us know, I have a mod coming up next year and this would be a very handy tool[FONT=&quot] if the costs were reasonable and compared favourably with the UniChip[FONT=&quot]s ability to regulate fuel and clip MAF voltage.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Hardly seems worth it, Unichip is dearer but can do much more.
I agree the Unichip sounds better based on that reply, but not sure Unichip would work out dearer in the long run.

If you cannot do anything with limp zones it would seem rather pointless, they can be the bane of the DI owner.
 

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Grenade Master
GU4 05
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Argh, so the plot thickens... I spoke to their local dude and he said and I suppose without any re-search in to this that limps can be altered too.

I followed the links posted on Navara forum in regards to reflashing the eproms chips and while the actual read and write is not that difficult, the de-soldering and re-soldering the chips and sockets sounds like proverbial headfcuk not to mention if you get it wrong it is good bye having the Patrol starting again because you have to use original ECU due to NATS which Navara doesn't have hence second hand ECUs are easily obtainable to experiment on and have a back up. I don't think I'm going to play with fire and hand $1,000 over as well for the privilege of altering a bit of fuelling.

I managed to have a peak at posted Patrols eproms maps dumps and while editable easily a lot of patience and know how is required to identify what is what in there.

This ain't worth the risks involved IMHO.

Cheers
 

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Premium Member
2003 ZD30 Di Patrol (The rare Gold one)
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I was speaking to a guy a few weeks ago and he mentioned that there is a guy that does a socket conversion for the eprom so that you can swap the eprom easily.
Cost was around $100.
IMO if you can't play with injection timing and limp points when reprogramming the eprom it is a waste of time. I want to run 30+ psi next year so I need a fix for the over boost cut that I get at 28psi

Sent from my work phone because I don't have the time to get my laptop out. its a Samsung cause im cooler than you
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Argh, so the plot thickens... I spoke to their local dude and he said and I suppose without any re-search in to this that limps can be altered too.

I followed the links posted on Navara forum in regards to reflashing the eproms chips and while the actual read and write is not that difficult, the de-soldering and re-soldering the chips and sockets sounds like proverbial headfcuk not to mention if you get it wrong it is good bye having the Patrol starting again because you have to use original ECU due to NATS which Navara doesn't have hence second hand ECUs are easily obtainable to experiment on and have a back up. I don't think I'm going to play with fire and hand $1,000 over as well for the privilege of altering a bit of fuelling.

I managed to have a peak at posted Patrols eproms maps dumps and while editable easily a lot of patience and know how is required to identify what is what in there.

This ain't worth the risks involved IMHO.

Cheers
My sentiments exactly, it would appear that once again we can be promised the earth but the reality is much more biting. The Navara thing from what I read bares no real resemblance to our DI's, there are quite a few complications they don't have to put up with and it doesn't solve our main issues anyway.

I loved the bit where they get you 188hp, must be a big set of crutches it's on to cope with the inevitable limp.

The reply I got is apparently straight from the horses mouth.
 

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Grenade Master
GU4 05
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My sentiments exactly, it would appear that once again we can be promised the earth but the reality is much more biting. The Navara thing from what I read bares no real resemblance to our DI's, there are quite a few complications they don't have to put up with.
Indeed, the biggest one is NATS. I'd still research the dumped EPROM information to see what I can make of it if only understanding what those cretins from Nissan have done in regards to limps and then somehow translating that to JDVM voltage clipping ability.

What really peeves me off these cretins charge a fortune for almost no gain, for what exactly? Couple of cheap eprom modules with the "know how" and the soldering iron!

Regards
 

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Premium Member
2003 ZD30 Di Patrol (The rare Gold one)
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I really wish I didn't get rid of my eprom programmer. :(

Sent from my work phone because I don't have the time to get my laptop out. its a Samsung cause im cooler than you
 

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2003 GU PATROL
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22,040 Posts
I have an old HKS F-CON V piggy back ECU here from an CA18DET... thinking out of the square... I wonder if it could be adapted to suit a ZD30.
 

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nissan
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I haven't looked at the Patrol bin since I first read it out 18 months ago but i've got time off over Chrissy so i'll have another look. VNT ecu's have a map called N75 which is what controls the vnt and boost so should be controllable and limp mode should be mappable but not sure on that.
 

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Grenade Master
GU4 05
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I haven't looked at the Patrol bin since I first read it out 18 months ago but i've got time off over Chrissy so i'll have another look. VNT ecu's have a map called N75 which is what controls the vnt and boost so should be controllable and limp mode should be mappable but not sure on that.
Any assistance in identifying the maps would be greatly appreciated. My initial look identified about 33 maps but what they're is not yet clear to me.

I think I found EGR map and possibly boost map but don't really understand those axis or what they reference be Volts/%/RPM/ Duty cycle% not there yet. That bozo on the "U" tube who runs/makes tutorials for WinOLS usage makes me to go to sleep as he goes on and on and on about it without really saying anything useful unless he's paid.

Regards
 

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nissan patrol
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The unichip can easily get rid of any limp modes caused by either maf or map sensors.

It has inbuilt voltage clamps with an x-axis as rpm (user definable)

Ive wired plenty of DI's up in the past to get rid of them. Only 2 extra wires need to be run into the engine bay to the map sensor as all the fueling and timing on those is done through 4 wires, being the canbus system from ecu to pump.

If it cuts a 2.34V @ @2000rpm, you can clamp there at 2.3V.
Above that you can lift the clamp up to when ever you like at the next limp mode and rpm then set a clamp for it there and so on.
 

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The unichip can easily get rid of any limp modes caused by either maf or map sensors.

It has inbuilt voltage clamps with an x-axis as rpm (user definable)

Ive wired plenty of DI's up in the past to get rid of them. Only 2 extra wires need to be run into the engine bay to the map sensor as all the fueling and timing on those is done through 4 wires, being the canbus system from ecu to pump.

If it cuts a 2.34V @ @2000rpm, you can clamp there at 2.3V.
Above that you can lift the clamp up to when ever you like at the next limp mode and rpm then set a clamp for it there and so on.

I see how this can be of benefit, but surely by clamping the MAF voltage to avoid these rather conservative limp points, are you then creating fuel restriction or limits and consequent flat spots at these points rather than being able to remove them with an ECU reflash.
 

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nissan
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Hello to all members. I am glad to see this topic on this great forum. When i bought my GU few years ago i wanted to have it chiptuned from the first day. Here in Europe it is more common service then in Australia. We chip everything :)
I bought file from one chiptunning forum member because of lack of info about this strange ECU. It was good starting point, but wasn't satisfied. In the meantime I studied this eculogic in Winols.
I encourage all enthusiasts to do it yourself. I read this great forum for long time and I can't believe that most people spend thousands on voltage modifiers, piggy back ecus, pedal voltage modifiers and so on. Everything can be done with just software modifications.
My ecu was the first one I socketed and found it really easy. Dont bought the spare one. I bought cheap hotair/soldering iron station for maybe $100, cheap chinese programmer with PLCC32 adapter and did it without problems. Dont be afraid of screwing up your ecu. Immo information is stored in another one EEPROM on the board. You can transfer it to another ecu if you want, or make backup ecu first.
Unfortunately can not say, I fully understand this ecu logic these days, but I identified most important maps and make the file that runs strong without limps.
The only thing to sort are boost spikes, but as i undestand, all of you run dawes valves etc. for boost control. I ordered one too.
I recommend thread on nav forum for all who are interested in this topic.
The D.I.Y. ZD30 remap thread. - The Navara Forum
Lot of usefull info there, but Patrol engine control system/software is completely different and need to be discussed in its own thread/forum.
Let's start discussion in the Christmas time.
to Rumcajs: if you are able to import mappacks in Winols, I can send you my one.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I see how this can be of benefit, but surely by clamping the MAF voltage to avoid these rather conservative limp points, are you then creating fuel restriction or limits and consequent flat spots at these points rather than being able to remove them with an ECU reflash.
Had a long discussion with a guy who does UniChip a while back, because I was/am looking at my future options for a future mod. The last one he did had similar limp zone voltages to mine, the numbers he was saying matched the numbers I limited my JayCar unit to, the JayCar unit was/is a good, cheap option for many of us (around $200), we ramp rather than clip though. After he did the UniChip clipping he adjusted the fuel independently.

I certainly hope this thread does open up options for us, but based on the reply I received in OP from the Quantum, I'm not that exited about it. The Unichip, once again, does look like a safer more flexible option for me, I keep looking for options though :).

There appears to be to many hidden traps in the DI reflash at this stage, we cannot compare to the Navara which is a considerably more simple ECU programme.
 

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I thought that I had my motor tuning to the point where I could leave it alone for now. With the modifications to air intake and larger MAF housing allowing much more air flow without possibly causing limp, then the UACF voltage modifier used to lift the MAF voltage back up slightly (Jaycar alternative for others who have not heard of it). The slightly out-of-date Rapid chip did a reasonable job for fueling and with three MAF option maps in my UAFC for different conditions, I thought I had it all sorted out.

But my last big trip bought out a few issues with reliability of this piggyback system that made me doubt the logic of just trying to work around the ECU rather than to reprogram it as the primary controller. Exactly what several others have been saying, why go to so much expense and effort to fool the ECU. Pity we can't just buy a complete new programmable unit like for other performance Nissans.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I thought that I had my motor tuning to the point where I could leave it alone for now. With the modifications to air intake and larger MAF housing allowing much more air flow without possibly causing limp, then the UACF voltage modifier used to lift the MAF voltage back up slightly (Jaycar alternative for others who have not heard of it). The slightly out-of-date Rapid chip did a reasonable job for fueling and with three MAF option maps in my UAFC for different conditions, I thought I had it all sorted out.

But my last big trip bought out a few issues with reliability of this piggyback system that made me doubt the logic of just trying to work around the ECU rather than to reprogram it as the primary controller. Exactly what several others have been saying, why go to so much expense and effort to fool the ECU. Pity we can't just buy a complete new programmable unit like for other performance Nissans.
Exactly, but so far the avenues explored seem to indicate that it's either unreliable or not possible for the DI to control fuel/limp zones/boost limp, not that the last one has any importance to us. I really hope someone has a reliable, flexible solution re just an ECU.

What sort of issues did you encounter?
 

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What sort of issues did you encounter?
The major issue has been some loose connections on my Rapid chip. It is one of the older style chips wired into, primarily the sensor wire on the fuel pump (at the pump) and to the throttle sensor near the accelerator pedal. This is not a preferable way to set up these compared to connection via a plug directly inline with the main ECU harness plug.

This bloody connection has been the bane of my life for several years. I think it is fixed and things have behave beautifully for ages, but then just when you think it safe to go back in the water!!!

I even cut all the connections and moved the chip itself from under the bonnet to under the dash, re-wired all the connections power etc, but had to connect back to the same difficult wire from the fuel pump. This has now been completely encapsulated in silicone sealer since a trip to the Kimberley several years ago when it all got very wet.
Big problem is that to make the connections any better, I would probably need to remove the fuel pump and rewire or possibly replace the pump sensor wires.


The other problem was that during the trip I experienced limp mode for the first time since fitting the bigger MAF housing and UAFC. This was quite frustrating because it mainly occurred intermittently, mostly with high air density like very high humidity (drizzle or fog), cold early morning air but also at altitude. I expected that lower barometric pressure at altitude would compensate for cold or moist dense air, but apparently not. This was when I found the limitations of the three optional maps that I had loaded to the UAFC.

Setting 0 was no adjustment of the MAF signal, which for mine is constantly reading below normal MAF voltage for the air flow. I have never been able to calibrate this, but instead compensated for it by adjusting the UAFC and Rapid chip. Setting 1 is up to 10% increase in MAF voltage and 2 is up to 15% in the mid range only.

I had never had a chance in WA to experience such atmospheric conditions, altitude, humidity and temperature, so have not managed to test a map to adequately cover for this.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The major issue has been some loose connections on my Rapid chip. It is one of the older style chips wired into, primarily the sensor wire on the fuel pump (at the pump) and to the throttle sensor near the accelerator pedal. This is not a preferable way to set up these compared to connection via a plug directly inline with the main ECU harness plug.

This bloody connection has been the bane of my life for several years. I think it is fixed and things have behave beautifully for ages, but then just when you think it safe to go back in the water!!!

I even cut all the connections and moved the chip itself from under the bonnet to under the dash, re-wired all the connections power etc, but had to connect back to the same difficult wire from the fuel pump. This has now been completely encapsulated in silicone sealer since a trip to the Kimberley several years ago when it all got very wet.
Big problem is that to make the connections any better, I would probably need to remove the fuel pump and rewire or possibly replace the pump sensor wires.

The other problem was that during the trip I experienced limp mode for the first time since fitting the bigger MAF housing and UAFC. This was quite frustrating because it mainly occurred intermittently, mostly with high air density like very high humidity (drizzle or fog), cold early morning air but also at altitude. I expected that lower barometric pressure at altitude would compensate for cold or moist dense air, but apparently not. This was when I found the limitations of the three optional maps that I had loaded to the UAFC.

Setting 0 was no adjustment of the MAF signal, which for mine is constantly reading below normal MAF voltage for the air flow. I have never been able to calibrate this, but instead compensated for it by adjusting the UAFC and Rapid chip. Setting 1 is up to 10% increase in MAF voltage and 2 is up to 15% in the mid range only.

I had never had a chance in WA to experience such atmospheric conditions, altitude, humidity and temperature, so have not managed to test a map to adequately cover for this.
The wiring at the VP44 is not known for its forgiveness, often hardening severely under repeated hot conditions.

Yes, it amazing how much effect atmospheric conditions effect the MAF, as you know I have around 10 maps available for people with JayCar units, we have a bit of variability up here with some roads in the 700+M range but like you on trips I've seen considerable differences, when you have these things "tuned" close to the edge sometimes they manage to tip over.

When you say 0%, 10%, 15% is this a global setting or can you vary within that range. You mention at 0 you read below the "real" MAF voltages, the JayCar is very similar, 0 is not 1 for 1 so if you have a limp zone usually a global 0 setting will fix it but impact on performance in other areas, hence the various maps for various modifications.

Hope you have a great day mate and was sorry to miss you when you were up here. I'm planning a trip to Esperence sometime next year (my wife has never been there) and we will do the round trip up to Perth so we may have another chance.

It would be really nice if something positive about modifying our ECU's did come out of this thread.
 
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