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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi All,

This was initially going to be a PM for @geeyoutoo but I figured it could lead to a helpful discussion for many.

I am fairly certain most are aware I have had recent remap woes. Well this was sorted and the ECU was sent to ECPT for their take on the remap.

Been in the car for about 4 weeks and it is going great.

I have never really had a great deal of faith in the needle valve, seems to be a black magic art to setting it and I like me simple. So I have followed GU2 and returned back to the factory controlled boost. For this to work you need to have the EGR turned off. Tried it on the previous remap and it was terrible, no boost, over boost etc.

The positive results so far;
- Awesome. It works very well. 20 psi max but available at 1800 rpm yet it will chug along at 10psi at 100km/h.
- 11.7 lph mixed driving
- EGT’s stay down, undulating 100km/h driving around 300, accelerating up a hill in 5th 500 with rapid recovery.
- No more needle valve!

Whilst I don’t perceive these to be negatives I would like top try and work out these few issues; @geeyoutoo)
- Slight lag between gears, just takes a bit to pick the boost back up. I no longer have the resonator so the boost pick up is back into the intake just after the MAF.
- It won’t hit max boost with cruise control on, max 18~
- Having faith in the ECU. I never had a boost gauge on the car prior to the needle and dawes etc so I don’t have a reference point for what the ECU commands.

Overall i am extremely happy with the car at the moment. The tune is exactly what I hoped it would be, it doesn’t have as much power as it has had but the drivability is drastically improved. I would like to sort out the lag and can always increase the boost but so far so good.

Rich



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Hi Rich
I don’t have anything on my car except a blocked off EGR, K&N filter and a boost gauge.
I find the max boost but only for a second is 18 psi usually it stops at 15.
At 100 it will sit on 10 but the slightest increase on the loud pedal and it drops to almost 0 and slowly increases back to 10 or 15 depending on load.
On the weekend we towed the Jayco and the boost was more stable under load ie: it didn’t drop off as much and was more stable.
Our old car has 376,000 k now and never been touched and I’m not really game to fiddle with it while it’s working ok. My only complaint is the boost dropping off as you accelerate up hills but it’s not for long

Cheers


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Hey Rich. Does that mean you still have the Dawes to cap max boost? Or is the ecu controlling everything? I am assuming yours is a crd?

With less low down boost the ecu must be opening the canes on the turbo a bit earlier than the Dawes/needle setup allowed. Sorry I don’t have any suggestions to help out but keen to see where you get with it.

Cheers
 

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Hi Rich
I don’t have anything on my car except a blocked off EGR, K&N filter and a boost gauge.
I find the max boost but only for a second is 18 psi usually it stops at 15.
At 100 it will sit on 10 but the slightest increase on the loud pedal and it drops to almost 0 and slowly increases back to 10 or 15 depending on load.
On the weekend we towed the Jayco and the boost was more stable under load ie: it didn’t drop off as much and was more stable.
Our old car has 376,000 k now and never been touched and I’m not really game to fiddle with it while it’s working ok. My only complaint is the boost dropping off as you accelerate up hills but it’s not for long

Cheers


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Hey Brad. It’s a pity you don’t have an EGT guage so you could see the correlation between boost and exhaust temp. When I blocked the egr on my old di it scared the pants off me when the boost would drop so dramatically (ie the egt went through the roof). What you have described is exactly the way mine behaved before I went to a Dawes setup.

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Trev and Yeti,

I still have a dawes valve to set max boost. Yep CRD.

Yeti, that is normal. The boost tends to fluctuate with just the EGR blocked. This was why I originally installed a needle valve and a dawes. Having load on the engine mitigates this as it takes the EGR out of the equation.

Rich


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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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Hi All,

This was initially going to be a PM for @GU2 but I figured it could lead to a helpful discussion for many.

I am fairly certain most are aware I have had recent remap woes. Well this was sorted and the ECU was sent to ECPT for their take on the remap.

Been in the car for about 4 weeks and it is going great.

I have never really had a great deal of faith in the needle valve, seems to be a black magic art to setting it and I like me simple. So I have followed GU2 and returned back to the factory controlled boost. For this to work you need to have the EGR turned off. Tried it on the previous remap and it was terrible, no boost, over boost etc. This once again goes to prove the shortcomings in some types of software.

The positive results so far;
- Awesome. It works very well. 20 psi max but available at 1800 rpm yet it will chug along at 10psi at 100km/h.
- 11.7 lph mixed driving
- EGT’s stay down, undulating 100km/h driving around 300, accelerating up a hill in 5th 500 with rapid recovery.
- No more needle valve!

Question, are you using the solenoid to control max boost as well? after my initial success of re installing the Vac Sol just for ongoing boost modulation I tried having it control max as well and it wasn't really successful so went back to Dawes max control. I did initially have an issue with the vac sol stuttering (mine had been in the shed for many years) so I filled it with WD40 gave it a few good shakes and after doing this a few times the action smoothed out.
I have no issues with lag so I'm not sure what is going on there, I jump on mine and it is instant full boost, 21.5psi by 1700rpm, but as I've said in my write up there is something the ECU is looking for in confirmation that will cause the boost to drop 'momentarily' to 10psi while cruising at speeds over 100kph in 5th (I have pages of ECUTalk Exell spreadsheet data I've studied, and I have spoken to Harley about it early last year but whatever it is searching for we don't know, this causes no issue as it is instant recovery. I have been contacted by a number of people who have tried this but it does not work for them for some reason????? You are the first that has had some success, but with so many differences in ECU's there could always minor variations in reaction. My VNT dances to the tune of the %T on the ECUTalk rather than just have the Dawes (or any other mechanical max boost control) bring the VNT to the top of the stroke and basically stay there, I've probably done over 40,000k on this setup so far without this little 'hiccup' causing any inconvenience.


Whilst I don’t perceive these to be negatives I would like top try and work out these few issues; @GU2)
- Slight lag between gears, just takes a bit to pick the boost back up. I no longer have the resonator so the boost pick up is back into the intake just after the MAF.
- It won’t hit max boost with cruise control on, max 18~ Mine won't sit at max for long unless I'm on a long incline, as said it dances to %T so it will drop back at even the slightest lessening of demand, BTW I relocated the vac sol to right beside the VNT and Dawes to have tube runs at an absolute minimum length, this seems to work well for me. There is enough length in the wires between vac sol and MAF to do this if you unwrap part of the cabling.
- Having faith in the ECU. I never had a boost gauge on the car prior to the needle and dawes etc so I don’t have a reference point for what the ECU commands.

Overall i am extremely happy with the car at the moment. The tune is exactly what I hoped it would be, it doesn’t have as much power as it has had but the drivability is drastically improved. I would like to sort out the lag and can always increase the boost but so far so good.

Rich
See notations in red, I'm pleased it is working out for you, I know I have another vac sol in the shed but I have not been able to locate it, when I do I will clean it up and install that to see if there is any change. I look forward to more feedback from you :).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Ross.

Dawes controls max boost.

The “lag” is like the boost has vanished in between gears and there is a momentary pause. It can be modulated via throttle, if I mash to the floor it is their but not with gradual application to full throttle.

I will try and keep this feed live by updating my findings. As I have stated very happy so far.


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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks Ross.

Dawes controls max boost.

The “lag” is like the boost has vanished in between gears and there is a momentary pause. It can be modulated via throttle, if I mash to the floor it is their but not with gradual application to full throttle.

I will hassle @Geordie4x4 for a borrow of his old boost solenoid.

I will try and keep this feed live by updating my findings. As I have stated very happy so far.


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- Slight lag between gears, just takes a bit to pick the boost back up. I no longer have the resonator so the boost pick up is back into the intake just after the MAF.
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Rich, You say you are taking your boost off just after MAF are you sure about that?

I have CRD and bought a Ultragauge EMplus direct from manufacturer from the US and this hooks up to your OBD11 port ($149 AUD delivered). Measures some good parameters including boost. Worhwhile to check it out mate.

UltraGauge OBDII Scan tool & Information Center
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Boost is sourced for the gauge from the inter cooler.

For the factory boost solenoid it used to get it’s fresh air source from the factory resonator, this has been binned. It now gets its fresh air from the induction piping post MAF.

It has 3 connections, vac, air in and vacuum out to the turbo diaphragm.


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Discussion Starter #11
Quick update.

Changed the hose from the vacuum source and removed the dampener. Also shortened to length of a few of the hoses. Increased the boost slightly so it is 21psi at 1800 in 4th @ WOT.

Small improvements. EGT’s have reduced slightly 20-40 degree’s. The lag is still there but reduced slightly.

Progress. It is sooo nice not having a needle valve.


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Quick update.

Changed the hose from the vacuum source and removed the dampener. Also shortened to length of a few of the hoses. Increased the boost slightly so it is 21psi at 1800 in 4th @ WOT.

Small improvements. EGT’s have reduced slightly 20-40 degree’s. The lag is still there but reduced slightly.

Progress. It is sooo nice not having a needle valve.
You have me enthused again, I would really like it if someone can replicate what I have achieved, I was beginning to wonder why it was only me? A few have tried and not been able to get there for some reason, I will spend some time in the shed today and see if I can find the other vac sol to compare with the one I have.

The shorter you can make the runs between vac sol/Dawes/VNT the better it is, this is how mine has been for 30-40,000k so far:

20180523_111915.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I won’t show you what mine looks like... damn messy.

I will have another play in the next few days to shorten all the lines to min length.

I don’t understand why more people aren’t running this setup. There must be a few ECPT tunes now.

Having just rechecked I will again up the boost a little as its more like 20psi at 2000rpm.

The lag has decreased noticeably.



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BTW, the green 'damper' will have no impact, it should be on the raw vacuum side of the vac sol anyway, mines still there.
 

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Ok I have a stupid question. Trust me I’m full of them
If you have returned it to factory boost control then how can you adjust your boost?

Isn’t the Dawes valve in between the factory setup and limits the boost so it cannot go higher than a set point and if the factory gear is working as it should then it will never need the Dawes valve?
Or have I missed something here? 🤪


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Ok I have a stupid question. Trust me I’m full of them
If you have returned it to factory boost control then how can you adjust your boost?

Isn’t the Dawes valve in between the factory setup and limits the boost so it cannot go higher than a set point and if the factory gear is working as it should then it will never need the Dawes valve?
Or have I missed something here? ��
Yes you have missed something :). You need to read the whole thread and also the section in my build thread to understand what we are doing. It is all fully explained in there, I'll add a link shortly. http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/members-rides-19/geeyoutoos-3l-di-troll-102892/index54.html starts in post #793.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Just a thought.

Could the “lag” be as a result of the fly by wire throttle?

Any one got an iDrive I can borrow?


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Just a thought.

Could the “lag” be as a result of the fly by wire throttle?

Any one got an iDrive I can borrow?


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That should have been ‘programmed ‘ out with the remap. Mine definitely was.
 

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Just a thought.

Could the “lag” be as a result of the fly by wire throttle?

Any one got an iDrive I can borrow?
Never been a problem with mine, have you ever suspected previously there could be an issue with your TPS? I know we had a member who pulled his apart some years ago and cleaned it to fix a minor issue, I put the thread into the DI archives, might be under maintenance????
 

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Discussion Starter #20
No never had an issue.

Ok well I will keep plodding along.




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