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Something new. Patrol Wobbles!

6K views 63 replies 21 participants last post by  Jethro 
#1 ·
Yeah I know, this topic has been covered in 1000000 other posts, ive read em all, dont worry. But heres my problem.
Have a 06 alloy tray back 4.2, leaf rear, had 80km front end shakes since ive owned it in one form or another.
Had a normal wheel balance and alignment, slight improvement for short time, no real change.
Had a 'force varience test' on all wheels where they match the tyres to the rims, slight change for short time, no real improvement.
Had an 'on car' balance, slight improvement, then after a day or two, back to shakes.
Tried spoke balancers and cone balancers.

Tossed original steering damper and replaced with new RTC, that seemed to make the shakes the worse they have ever been!

Finally got a set of 4x different wheels tyres to try, didnt change the shakes, so not the wheels!

Took out the swivel hub shims and tightened, put in 30mm spring spacers on front to try and 'reset' geometry. Tightened front wheel bearings. Another wheel balance and alignment, drove it down highway, hey its fixed, or so i thought, two days later back to shakes! WTF!

Had 100kg of cement bags in rear tray and finally the thing showed some sort of improvement in front shakes, decreased the most i'v eva noticed, still there but not nearly as bad.

Could there be something going on with the rear springs/ rear end causing front end shakes? Or is it just lifting the front up a little more than the 30mm spacers?

New panhard rod bushes on order, apparantly Nissan dont sell em seperately anymore!!!!?

Have checked the front end out as have various mechanics, all appears good with no obvious problems.

This thing is driving me mad..... Anyone know of any mechanic in Perth that can fix this b4 i drive it off a cliff!? Any other suggestions?? other than keep the cement in the rear..
Oh yeah - and suggestions like dont drive it btwn 80-90kms dont really help.:crazy:

Dunno if its suspension, steering, wheels or tyres so posted it here, (save repeating it )
(sorry for long winded rant) any good info would be appreciated.

ARGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!:sad::confused::coffeeti: cheers
 
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#2 ·
Tie rod ends perhaps? I had this problem last year after replaced pan hard rod bushes, tie rod ends (brought 2 rock rods from snake racing because nissan decided they didnt want you to replace just the tie rod ends). Turned out to be swivel hubs, removed the shims and it was better.

Is it a death wobble like one that throws u off the road or one that is just more annoying whilst driving?
 
#3 ·
Do you have raised suspension?? If you don't have any castor correction the front end will wobble about a fair bit. My old truck had a 4" lift without castor correction the whole car tracked all over the place, fitted some drop boxes and everything was sweet, or alternately check your radius arm bushes (both ends) for wear.
 
#4 ·
Just on the cement bag issue. Does the Truck still wobble at 80km or other when you are fully loaded on the back?
 
#5 ·
Hi Guys appreciate the quick replies, now thats service for u!

Patrolling, havnt done the tie rod ends, thats probly next after the panhard bushes?
Doesnt quite throw me off the road, but really really bad, like something is about to let go - bad. not like you would get with a wheel balance type of thing, If i speed up it does drive out of it after around 95kms
Got really really bad after fitting the rtc damper.

MickC, nah its standard suspension???! It was an ex western power ute so dunno if the rear leafs are heavier than normal? May have once carrried a bit of weight in its life? Yeah Radius arm bushes thats on the to do list too i guess.

GUBundy, with no weight on the rear it shakes like a bas@##&*rd, best improvement i have had is when its loaded, still a slight shake at around 80 but no where near as bad then when it is empty.

Weird thing is, before adding the cement bags, sometimes it wasnt too bad unloaded other times it was shocking - comes and goes?
 
#13 ·
Hi Guys appreciate the quick replies, now thats service for u!


GUBundy, with no weight on the rear it shakes like a bas@##&*rd, best improvement i have had is when its loaded, still a slight shake at around 80 but no where near as bad then when it is empty.

Weird thing is, before adding the cement bags, sometimes it wasn't too bad unloaded other times it was shocking - comes and goes?
Ok... now I am confident IMO the issue is the weight distribution of the vehicles load over different road surfaces!

By this I mean when loaded up the rear leafs are actually holding the troll's weight evenly across, from front to rear and flexing ( springing) up and down. I suspect the rear leaf springs are Heavy Duty( very stiff) and when not loaded up are lilerally like being on a solid Chassy.

This would cause the vehicles weight and balance distributions to be right out of whack.

Your front springs are already under load given the engine is there and moving to suit the road conditions but the back is simply bouncing and or skipping. This will cause death wobbles and significant vibrations through the troll, more noticeable on the front steer

I am not a mechanic or suspension specialist by the way. Just been around the block a few times.

I have seen this happen to many of my mates work Utes. When they are loaded up and or towing they ride awesome. Take that all away and they misbehave real bad like a kid having a tantrum.

If you can get a set of second hand leafs to try out or even old ones from the wreckers I would give that a go before buying more expensive stuff.

ALso you can over load the **** out of the rear to lift the weight of the front wheels and see what effect that may have. It can also make the troll drift left or right from the front( I didnt do this so I dont know how I thought of it:crazy:) this is further amplified at speed and comes and goes.

I also think your RTC is just doing what any dampener would do. Even if you change back I don't think that would make a difference. The RTC is most likely alot stiffer than the OEM and yes that would amplify the problem, but it's not the problem if you get what I mean.
Hope this helps and make some sense. Fingers where typing slower than the brain was ticking
 
#8 ·
G'day, get rid of the return to centre, they amplify the problem imo. the harder it pushes into the left spring the harder the left spring on the steering dampener pushes it into the right side , and its like arguing with the mil , it just escalates!

Panhards, and radius arm bushs , and get your caster checked out , you may be able to use castor correction radius arm bushes.
 
#9 ·
Hi Fishmagnet, yeah was thinking that may be best and plan to ditch the RTC as that did make it worse. Heres me hoping it would help fix it, (haha) was thinking of going with a standard OME damper or similar. - Any thoughts on which damper? and yeah panhards are next then radius arm bushes, me thinks the caster was checked after the 30mm spacers were put in. cheers
 
#11 ·
Hmmmm, front end shakes - rear end shakes, i dunno. like a wet dog in a cold place.:rolleyes:
mine is thru the steering wheel not thru tha drivers seat?? was wondering if a shakey rear leads to a shakey front... on the truck that is.
 
#14 ·
Cheers GU Bundy for the considered response.
I was kinda wondering about the rear leafs myself, they do seem to be heavier duty than others i have seen, so maybe the power co that owned it B4 had them installed for the extra weight it probly wudda been carrying back then, coupled with the light weight alloy tray - and now I own it theres nothing in the back to keep it down so to speak, so what u r saying does make some sense.
She does ride pretty hard with no load - back aching stuff!- even for a leaf rear end.!

(even tho the so called experts dont think a rear end problem would be causing it - but in saying that they do concede the front end suspension components look good and cant seem to find a problem.)!!

It wud also explain why the cement bags is having an effect - i think I WILL try some different springs in the rear, shud pick up some std ones cheap enuff. Thanks again.
 
#17 ·
Cheers GU Bundy for the considered response.

the power co that owned it B4 had them installed for the extra weight it probly wudda been carrying back then,

She does ride pretty hard with no load - back aching stuff!- even for a leaf rear end.!
These two point you make crystallize the issue for me in my head.

Power companies carry a **** load of equipment and heavy cable and most of the time have big tool boxes, compressors and other tools to be self sufficient when out in remote sites.

And the back aching stuff.... Well hell yeah! This all point to an over compensated rear end.
At least the softer rear srings wont put your back out... if you are going to add a canopy or other stuff to the rear latter I would also keep the leafs you currently have just incase you load it up on a more permanent basis.

I hope you solve the problem, it can be really frustrating and removes all the enjoyment of trolling along.
 
#16 ·
Hmm now theres a thought too Nutty Professor ! -the power of collective heads on my problem, taking a closer look one of the leaves does look like its not in line with the top ones,,, wonder if that makes a difference?
 
#37 ·
Check the centre bolts of the rear leaf springs (located directly under the diff), lost the nuts off my drivers side and the passanger side one was loose, my old Patrol was all over the shop, especially at higher speeds, luckily the old man knew what i was talking about when i told him what was going on and we fixed it up too easy. Worth a look, dunno if this is your prob but when you said

i thought of my old leaf sprung patrol.
 
#18 ·
Yes I think U may be onto something GU Bundy. Well certainly worth a try as iv (almost) tried evrything else but havnt tackled the rear end.) And u r certainly right about the weight they would b carrying, ive seen there current rucks loaded up with half the power station.

I will give it a whirl, I really like the truck and u r right these things do get to ya. Im one that doesnt like squeaks, rattles or shakes , after all it must be sumthing causing it. must be my OCD haha.

and yeah thats part reason why i keep a full belly of fuel in her , helps with the ride (and my back!)
 
#20 ·
Hi, probably a silly question - seeing that you have covered most bases - but for a comparison, have you tried inflating the tyres to their maximum allowable pressure as indicated on the side wall and taken it for a run.

Possible you have a situation where the flex in the crown of the tyre from centrifugal force at 80 kph is such that a form of 'tram tracking' effect is being set up. In other words the tyre's shape (crown and sidewall), at this speed, is dictating what is happening. Drive thru it (higher speed) the shape of the crown of the tyre changes and the wobbles dissappear.

For interest, what's your tyres ply ratings.... have seen wobbles like this sorted by fitting higher ply rated tyres..

My 2 bobs worth
 
#23 ·
Fat Alberts mum, thats a good one, yeah you'r probly right tho... haha... it doesnt move much in tha rear!
Tyres are LT 265/75R16 10PR 123/120R 694, Thats not a bad theory either re the tyres, will try the springs and will up tha pressure, they were @38 last time i checked.
 
#24 ·
im hearing ya mate i am having the same problem.put more tension on the king pins and thort i fixed it into i took it bush and its back.i look out the window and it looks like my wheel is about to take a walk on me.scarry stuff
 
#25 ·
Hey Gassed GU, is yours a ute as well? And yeah its a pain in tha ass, must be a reason for it tho, or maybe a few reasons compiling up.!
I see your in Perth have you found a decent mechanic / suspension shop who knows anything about these trolls or do u do ya own work?

I do kinda like the rear springs theory tho, will be looking into that.

It really is sending me :crazy: trying to find it , but i aint gonna let it beat me........ i hope!
 
#26 ·
Hi , here in South Africa i also have a Patrol Pickup, also leaf sprung, just like your picture - Heavy duty. This is my second patrol pickup, both had bad steering wobble. I must report at this point that both only had 75 000km on the clock at point of purchase,and all components were in tip top condition, yet steering wobble was evident, particularly at around the 85km - 95km per hour mark.

In both occasions i installed a 50mm lift to the front only, in the form of TJM 2" springs and gold edition shocks. Now i'm not saying this is the cure for you, but for me it took the steering wobble away and no further problems to date, vehicle now on 120 000 km.

Some might say that you cant lift the front without the rear doing likewise, but you must remember that with a heavy 4.2d motor up front the standard front springs wont last long, 2 years maybe, then they will sag, however,the rear stays almost true to the original hight of the standard H/D springs, so in essence you are merely leveling the vehicle.

Thats my story.

Ps: My steering damper was blown when i bought the vehicle and barely has compression or rebound,.......i still have the same steering damper in , i never replaced it. Just shows you that its not always what we think it is.

This vehicle is my daily drive and i do about 120km per day on average, I don;t bounce around too much for a leaf sprung rear, and my steering is pin sharp.

on these grounds perhaps see if you could borrow some 2'' springs from a retailer and see if it makes a difference.

Best
Russ
 
#27 ·
i do all my own work,but i have spoke to th boys at perth 4x4 in balcatta and they are more than happy to have a look.so give them a call and take it in and im sure they could help you.lets face it alot of lifted patrol's get shimmy but as you are standard i would think that there is somthing not right
 
#28 ·
Hmm, food for thought there African Troll, That was in effect the theory for fitting the 30mm spacers on the front springs, maybe the front needs a little more height, and your wobbles coming in at 85 - 90 would be spot on. And im hearing u on the steering dampner...Cheers mate, ---suggestions from around the world.. cool.
 
#29 ·
Going through the same thing but mine is a coil sprung GU wagone with 5" lift. Had a set of 35" BFG M/T and 2 sets of 285 MTR's on over around 8 years with no issues. Had a new set of 285 KM2's put on last Friday and the steering wheel yanks uncontrolably from side to side once I hit 80km and a small bump. Front of the car shakes violently from side to side and I have to slow down to around 40 to get control.

Problem is when I had the camper on the back to 2 days (had 8 tyres done for both Patrol and Camper), the thing road like a dream with no issue whatsoever. Take the camper off and it goes to $hit. Had a chat to my mate at TJM and he said he has seen it before and will start with the RTC and work his way from there.

Will let you know what the out come is.

Regards
David
 
#39 ·
Well I picked my car up from TJM today and drove it home via a back way. Had it up to 100 km/hr over potholes, inclines, dips, railway tracks etc and she is as smooth as silk. They found the front panhard bushes pretty well worn (<12 month old Tough Dog) so replaced with heavy duty ones under warranty. The old ones were polyurethane with crush tube and new ones were rubber and needed to be pressed in.

I am a very happy boy at the moment but will continue to test throughout the week before I give it back to my misses to drive.

Regards
David
 
#30 ·
Thanks for that Gassed GU and Grungle, I'm checking this post regularly for ideas...!
Once I have the panhard rod bushes if still no joy then maybe the boys at balcatta can help, trouble is its the other side of the world for me, but thats always the case anyway it seems.
and if they could come up with a fix i'd drive anywhere.

And yeah be real intersted to hear how u go with ya wagon as it sounds like it prefers weight at the rear like mine??? cheers.
 
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