spring reversal

7901 Views 68 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Baja Burley, Feb 9, 2015

Baja Burley

Discussion Starter · Nov 12, 2010

i poked a question out mainly for dave & luke's sake in their 4x4 master build thread but got intrigued and wanna know a bit more. so instead of hijacking their thread here goes..

i've bent 2 EFS 2in lifted leaf springs in the past month on the right front of the poo. i got a warranty on the first one and bent the new one 5 days later. im thinking if i move the shackle to the back this will stop my problem. my question is...

can i leave the spring in the same direction but move the SHACKLE ONLY?

im not real interested in paying for custom driveshafts after the wheelbase changes as the car waas bought as a muck around toy (but as you all know they slowly turn into money sponges)

cheers
Luke

1 - 20 of 69 Posts

crazy_clown87

· #2 · Nov 12, 2010

with extended shackels it doesn't get caught anymore but they are illegal.

mad-marc

· #3 · Nov 12, 2010

By my knowledge there is a minor difference between the diameter of the spring eyes front and rear of the spring.
The front side is fitted with PU or rubber bushing and the rear end with steel bushing insert.
I can try and measure a spring this weekend, I have one lying around somewere.

Baja Burley

Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 12, 2010

crazy, what doesnt get caught anymore?

also what is the legality of this mod?

OutbackMK

· #5 · Nov 13, 2010

Baja Burley said:
i've bent 2 EFS 2in lifted leaf springs in the past month on the right front of the poo.
cheers
Luke

I've just got the same springs, I hope mine don't bend!
Are you running without stabiliser bar?

Baja Burley

Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 13, 2010

i took stabiliser bar off between bends. so one bent with it and one bent without.

the place where it is bending is right infront of the rear hanger.
i believe it is from horizontal impact on the diff/tyre forcing the spring backwards. but it has no give due to solid mount so just bends the top leaf up. this is why i want to put the shackle at the back, to absorb the impact and offer some 'give' to the system.

crazy_clown87

· #7 · Nov 13, 2010

the shakel was getting caught on the hanger on mine

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Screwy

· #8 · Nov 13, 2010

Guys this is a common problem.

The reason it does this is that the shackle becomes too straight with the suspension lift and then 'inverts' on travel.

Longer shackles will stop this from happening, however it is not solving your overall issue.

The way a leave sprung truck, especially one with lifted springs, gets flex is via the movement forward and backward of the shackle.

If the shackle is long it makes it straighter. You get your ride hieght and lift a little higher though you loose all or most of the flex u were getting in the shackle.

The way correct all of your issues without too much work, is to cut those 2 front shackle mounts off and move them back an inch and re weld them. This will give you the angle you need on your shackle to prevent inverting and also gain flex.

The ideal best way to set up an MQ front end with leaves is to cut those 2 mounts off and the rear 2 off. Weld a dropped X member in the front and weld the 2 rear mounts in the front. solid bolt them in, then weld the previous front ones in at the back and bolt your shackles in at the back.

This gives you excellent flex, great approach angles and less breakages, however you really need to know what your doing to set them up correctly.

Screwy

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mad-marc

· #9 · Nov 13, 2010

bending springs sucks.
just use longer shackle or cut off hanger and move back a bit and reweld.
or you can weld a stop behind the shackle on the hanger to stop it pivoting back to far.
this would be the easyest option and works great.

David_S

· #10 · Nov 15, 2010

mad-marc said:
bending springs sucks.
or you can weld a stop behind the shackle on the hanger to stop it pivoting back to far.
this would be the easyest option and works great.

Like this with rubber stops made frrom old rear suspension bushes.

One per side fitted on the inside. This set is for the MQ which has upper and lower steel bushes.

These won't necessarily stop your efs springs bending as Baja describes. If you have a bit of momentum and hit a bump hard the spring flattens and the shock from the wheels is transmitted through the axle to the leaf which buckles. I think the efs springs are a bit weak here. You could strengthen this weak point by fitting a thicker top leaf or a longer second leaf. I don't think that modifying the front spring hangers will make much difference except that a stop as pictured will reduce the force transmitted through the rear part of the spring.

David

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Baja Burley

Discussion Starter · #11 · Nov 16, 2010

i think the impact i am getting is on the front of the spring directly, not on the wheels. by putting solid mounts up front this will set the impact point higher and be safer... hopefully..

can anyone advise on the legality of a shackle reversal and/or hilux springs in front?

cheers
Luke

Baja Burley

Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 16, 2010

how credible are drive shaft spacers? i believe they wrk in much the same way as wheels spacers?

neRok

· #13 · Nov 16, 2010

i reckon no body would know you didnt have MQ leaves in your car, if you went that way. same with the spring reversal.

never heard of a driveshaft spacer, as long as its balanced i reckon it would be okay. and as long as it doesnt effect the uni angle too bad. and its not like wheel spacers at all, they effect other things like extra load on wheel bearings and steering systems that manufactures havent engineered for. driveshaft spacer will effect nothing.

Screwy

· #14 · Nov 17, 2010

neRok said:
i reckon no body would know you didnt have MQ leaves in your car, if you went that way. same with the spring reversal.

never heard of a driveshaft spacer, as long as its balanced i reckon it would be okay. and as long as it doesnt effect the uni angle too bad. and its not like wheel spacers at all, they effect other things like extra load on wheel bearings and steering systems that manufactures havent engineered for. driveshaft spacer will effect nothing.

Drive shaft spacers are quite common. I have one on my SWB GQ bolted to the handbrake drum. You might be able to buy them from the likes of superior maybe even.

If they are balanced they are sweet, but nothing substitutes the correct size shaft anyways.

Screwy

Baja Burley

Discussion Starter · #15 · Nov 17, 2010

will i need different driveshaft in front with hilux springs? (with spring facing either way)

really amazed with the flex you got from your truck screwy! i want!

Baja Burley

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 17, 2010

have you got any close up pics of your set up screwy?

Screwy

· #17 · Nov 18, 2010

Driveshaft length will remain the same in the front unless you move your wheelbase forward or back..... With the hilux leaves the way i had them your front to centre diff pin measurement is the same so therefore you dont need a longer shaft....

However,

Your down travel will be increased to the point where your shaft may drop out on full travel, if this is the case a longer shaft spline internally will be needed.

I probably have pics of the setup close up somewhere. not on the computer anymore. Ill have a dig around and see if i can find it.

That patrol was built years ago, proven and sold years ago still so ill see what i can find.

screwy

Baja Burley

Discussion Starter · #18 · Nov 19, 2010

went and got a new spring from efs today. $110 for a full pack. will chuck that in when i get home and be ridin in comfort again! haha. ive got two 2in lifted spring packs sitting in the shed with bent top leafs if anyone wants them?

screwy, did you put the new front mounts in the same spot as the old ones with the lux springs?

Screwy

· #19 · Nov 19, 2010

Baja Burley said:
went and got a new spring from efs today. $110 for a full pack. will chuck that in when i get home and be ridin in comfort again! haha. ive got two 2in lifted spring packs sitting in the shed with bent top leafs if anyone wants them?

screwy, did you put the new front mounts in the same spot as the old ones with the lux springs?

got no choice in that matter.

As far forward on the chassis as you can. I did put a dropped crossmember in though as well.

The FRONT LEAVE PACK, rear hilux leave mount.... need to much further back as they are a longer leave.

Screwy

Baja Burley

Discussion Starter · #20 · Nov 20, 2010

oh yeh i get you. sorry about the 20 questions but i'm seriously considering this mod and you are the only one i know (maybe in the world) who's done it! and i want to get it right.

1. What model hilux did you get your leaves off? i know you prev said IFS but that is alot of models
2. Did you use mq chassis brackets or hilux chassis brackets?
3. how did the leave pins line up with the seat on the axle tube?
4. what did it do to overall height in the front compared to stoc

i know im asking alot so thanks in advance

Luke

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