[Baja Burley]

i poked a question out mainly for dave & luke's sake in their 4x4 master build thread but got intrigued and wanna know a bit more. so instead of hijacking their thread here goes..

i've bent 2 EFS 2in lifted leaf springs in the past month on the right front of the poo. i got a warranty on the first one and bent the new one 5 days later. im thinking if i move the shackle to the back this will stop my problem. my question is...

can i leave the spring in the same direction but move the SHACKLE ONLY?

im not real interested in paying for custom driveshafts after the wheelbase changes as the car waas bought as a muck around toy (but as you all know they slowly turn into money sponges)

cheers
Luke

 

[Baja Burley]

crazy, what doesnt get caught anymore?

also what is the legality of this mod?

 

[Baja Burley]

i took stabiliser bar off between bends. so one bent with it and one bent without.

the place where it is bending is right infront of the rear hanger.
i believe it is from horizontal impact on the diff/tyre forcing the spring backwards. but it has no give due to solid mount so just bends the top leaf up. this is why i want to put the shackle at the back, to absorb the impact and offer some 'give' to the system.

 

[Baja Burley]

i think the impact i am getting is on the front of the spring directly, not on the wheels. by putting solid mounts up front this will set the impact point higher and be safer... hopefully..

can anyone advise on the legality of a shackle reversal and/or hilux springs in front?

cheers
Luke

 

[Baja Burley]

how credible are drive shaft spacers? i believe they wrk in much the same way as wheels spacers?

 

[Baja Burley]

will i need different driveshaft in front with hilux springs? (with spring facing either way)

really amazed with the flex you got from your truck screwy! i want!

 

[Baja Burley]

have you got any close up pics of your set up screwy?

 

[Baja Burley]

went and got a new spring from efs today. $110 for a full pack. will chuck that in when i get home and be ridin in comfort again! haha. ive got two 2in lifted spring packs sitting in the shed with bent top leafs if anyone wants them?

screwy, did you put the new front mounts in the same spot as the old ones with the lux springs?

 

[Baja Burley]

oh yeh i get you. sorry about the 20 questions but i'm seriously considering this mod and you are the only one i know (maybe in the world) who's done it! and i want to get it right.

1. What model hilux did you get your leaves off? i know you prev said IFS but that is alot of models
2. Did you use mq chassis brackets or hilux chassis brackets?
3. how did the leave pins line up with the seat on the axle tube?
4. what did it do to overall height in the front compared to stoc

i know im asking alot so thanks in advance
Luke

 

[Baja Burley]

Thanks ALOT mate. im gonna start sourcing some bits and pieces and let you know how it goes.

 

[Baja Burley]

im having a hard time chasing some of these springs down. ifs models go back to about '92 dont they? also will i need them from a 2wd model or 4wd?

edit: 10/88 - 97 is the same car. so this is the model i need?

i was speaking to quite a knowledgable fella and he said the gear from 98-05 hilux's is the same, however differs between dual and single cab.

 

[Baja Burley]

went out and got me some springs today. they're out of a 89 hilux surf. its a 2 stage (3+1) i took the second stage out and trial fitted the leaf pack. they are VERY soft.

just sitting there i lost 100mm of height (hub to guard) ONE HUNDRED MILLIMETERS!! and the angle of the axle perch is way off. having said that this was with the shackle at the front and when i send the shackle to the back it will correct it (according to my calcs)

i used about a 150mm shackle and still wasnt long enough so im going to have to move the rear chassis mount back a couple cm.

to gain a bit of static height and more droop i was thinking of sticking one of the leaves out of my 2in lifted EFS packs onto the bottom of the hilux pack to siffen/lift it a bit. what do you guys reckon?

i took some measurement of how the spring flattenned out under load. measurements are pin to pin.

unlaiden (full droop) - 1105mm
static (still car) - 1114
fully laiden (full tuck) - 1190

so the spring extends 85mm between full droop and full tuck.

this is compared to a static pin to pin length of the patrol spring of 1060mm.

i will attempt to make up a bit of height with a dropped crossmember too.

let me know what you guys reckon. i will start loading up some pics of the process too once i figure out photo bucket
cheers
Luke

 

[Baja Burley]

so it does need to be 97+ model? i did think that because they are not much longer. oh well, keep searching. (unlaiden was as full droop)

 

[Baja Burley]

diggin this thread up because its happening soon.. i read on outer limits that this reversal mod is bad with spring under cars?? apparently its because you just dont have the room for the wheel to fully 'tuck' and so you have to use harder sprigs which will defeat the purpose??

TO CLARIFY, my truck is sprung under, always will be... im doing this mod to avoid bending springs, not necessarily to gain flex, although if there is any flex to gain i want it!.

the attractive aspect of the mod to me is the fact that when i hit something with the wheel and it travels UPWARDS the whole diff will be allowed to move backwards and the shock will be absorbed by the rotation of the shackle. vise versa when the wheel is drooping the diff will move forward due to rotation of the shackle..

 

[Baja Burley]

the current set up allows the diff to move FORWARD on UP TRAVEL so when i hit something the diff cannot move forward, BUT it still wants to travel UPWARDS and BACKWARDS due to the force of the impact. BUT the only way for the diff to move backwards is for the spring to buckle because it is solid mounted at the rear...

big brain explosion i know, i couldn't word it any better. but this is my understanding and the reversal seems like the best option to fix my problem.

 

[Baja Burley]

yes i spose your right nerok. im planning a body lift anyway so it should be all good for scrubbing issues..

 

[Baja Burley]

when moving the rear mount backwards on the front, there is a crossmember about 50mm behind it which is lower than it?? wouldnt the shackle hit on the cross member when fully compressed? i had a crazy idea to put the shackle hanger on the actual cross member! maybe silly but we'll see.

keeping in mind im getting custom leafs made for this so it doesnt matter what the length between mounts is.

any more thoughts?

 

[Baja Burley]

i stuck a stock rear leaf in the front of it today as i recall them being even LONGER than a IFS hilux spring. it looks like a good candidate... only thing is the diff locating pin is about 50mm rearwards of where it should be but i can overcome this by offsetting the front spring hanger 50mm forward on the dropped crossmember...

ive been doing alot of reading of HiLux threads on outers trying to gain a bit of knowledge on good front end leaf flex and i reckon im knowledged up enough to start cuttin mounts off and welding like a mad man and come out with a farely strong and nimble front end.

only problem is my welder (brother) is in WA in the mines for 3 weeks. i can tack though!?

has ANYONE got any friends of friends of friends who have reversed shackles in an mq? i need someone to chime in on this and steer me towards a victory..

cheers
Luke

 

[Baja Burley]

you want the longer side of the leaf connected to the fixed mount, this will allow the diff to travel on a the greatest arc. you also want a nice long shackle, so the diff can really move along that arc,

this is true but i dont want to lose approach angle by moving the diff back.. ie. because the fixed point will be at the front the longest arc will be at the back hence the futher the diff is backwards the greater flex you will get from the set up. BUT i dont really wanna go changing diff position just yet because that means different drive shaft and stuff. i think approach angle is more important than 3cm of wheel travel.

so i will be aiming for the same wheelbase (not moving the diff at all) although i would move it forward if anything...

That rear reversal looks interesting as well. good way to deal with the big ass these old girls have

keep you posted

 

[Baja Burley]

dont want to be mucking around with pinion angles.

This is whats giving me the most grief when planning this mod... because im putting shackles at the rear.. im effectively raising the SPRING at the front by the length of a shackle and dropping the spring at the rear by the length of a shackle... which effectively throws out my pinion angle by 2x shackle length!! im trying to keep the rear mount as close to the chassis as possible so as to keep the dropped crossmember as small as possible.. at this stage im looking at like an 8INCH DROPPED CROSSMEMBER to keep a decent pinion angle!!!! simply because the chassis gets so much lower as i got backwards with the rear mount..

i think im just going to have to go down the road of castor wedges which i wanted to stay away from in the beginning...

bounce some thoughts off me please