[neRok]

1: aim for a 2000+ model i reckon, they are probably all the same anyway.
2: your going to have to buy new brackets anyway, get whatever suits. look at some sites that sell hilux gear.
4: i would think you should use the stock hilux leaves, so they are as flat as possible, for best flex. if you get lifted leaves that are in a big U, not as much flex. so because they are pretty flat, i dont think you would get any extra lift out of the hilux leaves, however if you install with a dropped cross-member, that may add some height.

ive been doing some reading, shackles at the rear (on the front) makes the ride nicer as the springs can move better when they hit bumps etc. this has a negative effect though, as the car will dive a lot more when heavily braking, although this can be somewhat corrected with an adjustable shock absorber that can be set to hard on the road.

also, you will probably need to have you driveshaft moded. i think screwy mentioned that above. with shackle at front, when drooping the diff would move toward the gearbox, compressing the driveshaft. with shackle reversed (at rear) when drooping the diff will move forward, meaning your driveshaft might not have enough spline to extend.

 

[Screwy]

oh yeh i get you. sorry about the 20 questions but i'm seriously considering this mod and you are the only one i know (maybe in the world) who's done it! and i want to get it right.

1. What model hilux did you get your leaves off? i know you prev said IFS but that is alot of models
2. Did you use mq chassis brackets or hilux chassis brackets?
3. how did the leave pins line up with the seat on the axle tube?
4. what did it do to overall height in the front compared to stoc

i know im asking alot so thanks in advance
Luke

1. Any Toyota Hilux that has IFS front suspension between 1997 and 2000 is suiteable for the rear leave pack. I believe they are all the same or similar.

2. I used ones i made. You can probably use either depending on the what bushes you use though.

3. Both packs are the same width and front to centre pin the same. I cant remember if i had to drill the centre pin on the diff out a touch for a larger bolt but if i did thats no biggie anyway. They seat up fine and can use your same spring perches and u bolts.

4. Overall height similar. Maybe an inch more in the dropped crossmember and longer shackles, though i lost it as the springs were flat deliberatly for flex. My truck was already SOA when i did this, so its a bad example. This mod is for front end flex. not really height....

Screwy

 

[Jelmer160]

Thanks!

 

[chuckles]

thanks for the this info screwy. very much appreciated!

cheers

 

[Baja Burley]

Thanks ALOT mate. im gonna start sourcing some bits and pieces and let you know how it goes.

 

[seehuusen]

thanks for taking the time to write all that down, the results are amazing

Do you know what the legalities are, related to driving the rig around on normal roads, with this setup?

 

[Baja Burley]

im having a hard time chasing some of these springs down. ifs models go back to about '92 dont they? also will i need them from a 2wd model or 4wd?

edit: 10/88 - 97 is the same car. so this is the model i need?

i was speaking to quite a knowledgable fella and he said the gear from 98-05 hilux's is the same, however differs between dual and single cab.

 

[Screwy]

thanks for taking the time to write all that down, the results are amazing

Do you know what the legalities are, related to driving the rig around on normal roads, with this setup?

Mine was all engineered and i drove it between tracks. Never a problem.

No bump steer. Went well. Just dont forget to rotate your knuckles if you do the entire conversion to get your steering castor back in allignment.

 

[Screwy]

im having a hard time chasing some of these springs down. ifs models go back to about '92 dont they? also will i need them from a 2wd model or 4wd?

edit: 10/88 - 97 is the same car. so this is the model i need?

i was speaking to quite a knowledgable fella and he said the gear from 98-05 hilux's is the same, however differs between dual and single cab.

IFS - Independant front suspension.

You want 4x4 model.

Hilux 4x4s were solid axle front and rear from when they started to 1997. Some models from 1993 i think maybe were IFS with a solid rear axle...

After that they all went IFS front.

Any model between that 1993 gap and around 2000 model that has independant front suspension ( not a live axle ).... You need the rear leaves from the solid rear axle out of that model.

Screwy

 

[chuckles]

thanks for taking the time to write all that down, the results are amazing

Do you know what the legalities are, related to driving the rig around on normal roads, with this setup?

we are in qld, we are already bent over the table awaiting penetration as far as 'legal' modifications go. hopefully soon it will a little more lenient if and when the modification laws become uniform across all states

 

[neRok]

when the modification laws become uniform across all states

yer that might end up being good news. over here they were trying to introduce some BS emission laws that rendered even 'stock standard' aftermarket replacement mufflers illegal. it got introduced without anyone knowing, then all these big motor associations went up in arms, it was temporarily withdrawn and now its been dismissed all together because all these big associations talked with the government and got a realistic and workable outcome (no law lol). hopefully the national vehicle mod laws will pan out in a similar fashion, with decent and practical laws that we can all access and follow easily. heres hoping

 

[seehuusen]

if someone is close to Banksia (Post Code 2216)

Genuine rear leafs
Leaf springs x2. HiLux SR5 Diesel 2010. 1000 Km use. (eBay item 290502157676 end time 26-Nov-10 18:02:26 AEDST) : Cars, Bikes, Boats

Auction currently sitting at $25, looks like someone has upgraded their hilux suspension

 

[neRok]

found a chart to help find suitable spring sizes: Ironman 4x4 Suspension - Leaf Spring Specifications
all the sizes include 40-50mm lifts, but at least its ballpark figures for comparison.

NISS003B is MQ front and NISS005B is MK front leafs. They are the same sizes though, 560f 550r 185/170c. 6 leaves.
NISS004B is common rear, 604f 838r 250/235c. 8 leaves.
FYI, my codes mean f for front half the spring, r for rear half the spring, c is what they call camber (basically they spring height).
I have listed 2 c values because they have 2 available, one drivers and passenger side, which is interesting to note the 15mm difference.

hilux from 97 to 05 are all listed with the same suspension parts. the rear leafs are models TOY027 A or B or C (heavier load carrying with more leaves). They are the same sizes though, 560f 740r 200c. The A model has dual stage leaves, 6+2.

so those hilux leaves are nearly 200mm longer to the rear and the same on the front, which is what Screwy was saying (the diff wont move if the front eye is located same position). They do have more camber than the stock MQ leaves though, which means they arent as flat are are more of a U. But the extra length should make them flex better.

suprisingly, the MQ rear leaf is one of the longest they make. only ones longer are TOY047, which also have a little more camber and are dual stage. these are the rear springs of 79 series.

edit- here is a link of some springs on american 4wds, for reference: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10232264&postcount=2
i presume they are stock height lengths though. Interesting to note that the MQ rear leafs on ironman website measure ~57 inches long, which is comparable to one of the longest on that chart.

 

[Baja Burley]

went out and got me some springs today. they're out of a 89 hilux surf. its a 2 stage (3+1) i took the second stage out and trial fitted the leaf pack. they are VERY soft.

just sitting there i lost 100mm of height (hub to guard) ONE HUNDRED MILLIMETERS!! and the angle of the axle perch is way off. having said that this was with the shackle at the front and when i send the shackle to the back it will correct it (according to my calcs)

i used about a 150mm shackle and still wasnt long enough so im going to have to move the rear chassis mount back a couple cm.

to gain a bit of static height and more droop i was thinking of sticking one of the leaves out of my 2in lifted EFS packs onto the bottom of the hilux pack to siffen/lift it a bit. what do you guys reckon?

i took some measurement of how the spring flattenned out under load. measurements are pin to pin.

unlaiden (full droop) - 1105mm
static (still car) - 1114
fully laiden (full tuck) - 1190

so the spring extends 85mm between full droop and full tuck.

this is compared to a static pin to pin length of the patrol spring of 1060mm.

i will attempt to make up a bit of height with a dropped crossmember too.

let me know what you guys reckon. i will start loading up some pics of the process too once i figure out photo bucket
cheers
Luke

 

[neRok]

so these new springs are only 50mm longer than the old ones? doesnt sound right to me.
edit- just realized thats because your meant to get 97+ springs, as i discussed above, to get the really long ones. those hilux leaves are probably no better than the MQ, only flexxing better because there is less leaves.

also, i doubt 'unladen' is full droop, because with the weight of the wheel and axle pulling down on the spring, im sure it would become even more of a U.

 

[Baja Burley]

so it does need to be 97+ model? i did think that because they are not much longer. oh well, keep searching. (unlaiden was as full droop)

 

[charo249]

To prevent spring inversion it is easiest to bolt or weld a steel plate behind the spring hanger (mine is a bolted piece of 50mm angle cut to fit around chassis rail as there was already a threaded hole under the front body mount that I could use). If set up right you have a cheap easy solution to inverted springs. After breaking a front spring I got an extra leaf added to my springs all round also got springs reset 50mm higher at the same time to fit 33' tyres - once springs had settled in, there was no great difference in ride quality.

 

[Screwy]

A hilux surf is a 4 runner. They are an import and not a hilux.

You need a Hilux 4x4 from around 1994 mark i think that has IFS front and live axle rear. The Hiluz leaves are like a foot longer. Cant remember the exact lengths....

Screwy

 

[Baja Burley]

diggin this thread up because its happening soon.. i read on outer limits that this reversal mod is bad with spring under cars?? apparently its because you just dont have the room for the wheel to fully 'tuck' and so you have to use harder sprigs which will defeat the purpose??

TO CLARIFY, my truck is sprung under, always will be... im doing this mod to avoid bending springs, not necessarily to gain flex, although if there is any flex to gain i want it!.

the attractive aspect of the mod to me is the fact that when i hit something with the wheel and it travels UPWARDS the whole diff will be allowed to move backwards and the shock will be absorbed by the rotation of the shackle. vise versa when the wheel is drooping the diff will move forward due to rotation of the shackle..

 

[Baja Burley]

the current set up allows the diff to move FORWARD on UP TRAVEL so when i hit something the diff cannot move forward, BUT it still wants to travel UPWARDS and BACKWARDS due to the force of the impact. BUT the only way for the diff to move backwards is for the spring to buckle because it is solid mounted at the rear...

big brain explosion i know, i couldn't word it any better. but this is my understanding and the reversal seems like the best option to fix my problem.