i think your getting front and rear confused. in the rear, you can spin the leaves around to extend the wheelbase. in the front, you can do a shackle reversal, so the 'geometry' works as you mention. the front springs should stay in the same spot though, because the leaves havent moved. so i cant see there being any problems with tuck, its a pretty big wheel arch in there. some people get scrub on the little flat that covers the indicators, with a front shackle reversal the wheel should move away from this now.
spring reversal
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yes i spose your right nerok. im planning a body lift anyway so it should be all good for scrubbing issues..
when moving the rear mount backwards on the front, there is a crossmember about 50mm behind it which is lower than it?? wouldnt the shackle hit on the cross member when fully compressed? i had a crazy idea to put the shackle hanger on the actual cross member! maybe silly but we'll see.
keeping in mind im getting custom leafs made for this so it doesnt matter what the length between mounts is.
any more thoughts?
keeping in mind im getting custom leafs made for this so it doesnt matter what the length between mounts is.
any more thoughts?
i stuck a stock rear leaf in the front of it today as i recall them being even LONGER than a IFS hilux spring. it looks like a good candidate... only thing is the diff locating pin is about 50mm rearwards of where it should be but i can overcome this by offsetting the front spring hanger 50mm forward on the dropped crossmember...
ive been doing alot of reading of HiLux threads on outers trying to gain a bit of knowledge on good front end leaf flex and i reckon im knowledged up enough to start cuttin mounts off and welding like a mad man and come out with a farely strong and nimble front end.
only problem is my welder (brother) is in WA in the mines for 3 weeks. i can tack though!?
has ANYONE got any friends of friends of friends who have reversed shackles in an mq? i need someone to chime in on this and steer me towards a victory..
cheers
Luke
ive been doing alot of reading of HiLux threads on outers trying to gain a bit of knowledge on good front end leaf flex and i reckon im knowledged up enough to start cuttin mounts off and welding like a mad man and come out with a farely strong and nimble front end.
only problem is my welder (brother) is in WA in the mines for 3 weeks. i can tack though!?
has ANYONE got any friends of friends of friends who have reversed shackles in an mq? i need someone to chime in on this and steer me towards a victory..
cheers
Luke
i found a lot of good reading on pirate4x4, which is a USA site with a lot of leaf sprung jeeps. heaps of info on there.
you're right about the MQ rear leaves being longer than the hilux IFS, in fact they were the longest spring in the ironman catalogue from what i remember. when you rig them up, you want the longer side of the leaf connected to the fixed mount, this will allow the diff to travel on a the greatest arc. you also want a nice long shackle, so the diff can really move along that arc, no point having super flexy leaves if they are limited by a tiny shackle. some jeepers connected their shackles through the chassis rails, some even above the chassis. this allows a really long shackle whilst keeping the vehicle low. for some people, huge lift is not a priority, especially if youve already SOA.
i dont think you will find anyone who has done this, but ive done a fair bit of reading on it so keep posting your thoughts and ill keep commenting!
you're right about the MQ rear leaves being longer than the hilux IFS, in fact they were the longest spring in the ironman catalogue from what i remember. when you rig them up, you want the longer side of the leaf connected to the fixed mount, this will allow the diff to travel on a the greatest arc. you also want a nice long shackle, so the diff can really move along that arc, no point having super flexy leaves if they are limited by a tiny shackle. some jeepers connected their shackles through the chassis rails, some even above the chassis. this allows a really long shackle whilst keeping the vehicle low. for some people, huge lift is not a priority, especially if youve already SOA.
i dont think you will find anyone who has done this, but ive done a fair bit of reading on it so keep posting your thoughts and ill keep commenting!
I think this is one thing i would like to do, I want a gu but can't afford as a house comes first, so just mod what i have.
Be good to see how it all works. I would like to stay SUA but have a better flex from the front end. would be good to out do the more modern 4bys with an old girl
Be good to see how it all works. I would like to stay SUA but have a better flex from the front end. would be good to out do the more modern 4bys with an old girl
this is true but i dont want to lose approach angle by moving the diff back.. ie. because the fixed point will be at the front the longest arc will be at the back hence the futher the diff is backwards the greater flex you will get from the set up. BUT i dont really wanna go changing diff position just yet because that means different drive shaft and stuff. i think approach angle is more important than 3cm of wheel travel.
so i will be aiming for the same wheelbase (not moving the diff at all) although i would move it forward if anything...
That rear reversal looks interesting as well. good way to deal with the big ass these old girls have
keep you posted
yer thats some good points. you could always leave the shackles at the front!
So neRok, fixed mounts at the rear of the front springs, where the longest leaf section is attached, so the dif is closer to the front, and shackles at the front. If putting MQ rear leafs on the front, get the shackle angles correct and then weld rear mounts in position (on a dropped crossmember I'm guessing)?
Trevor.
sounds pretty good to me, though i doubt the rear needs a drop crossmember and the front would probably benefit with a crossmember. i would be replacing both stock mounts, i think it would be necessary anyway if keeping the diff inthe same position. the fixed rear mounts would be welded further toward the rear of the chassis, where from memory it actually gets lower, giving your vehicle a bit more lift! might need that front dropped crossmember to keep leaf 'level'. dont want to be mucking around with pinion angles.
This is whats giving me the most grief when planning this mod... because im putting shackles at the rear.. im effectively raising the SPRING at the front by the length of a shackle and dropping the spring at the rear by the length of a shackle... which effectively throws out my pinion angle by 2x shackle length!! im trying to keep the rear mount as close to the chassis as possible so as to keep the dropped crossmember as small as possible.. at this stage im looking at like an 8INCH DROPPED CROSSMEMBER to keep a decent pinion angle!!!! simply because the chassis gets so much lower as i got backwards with the rear mount..
i think im just going to have to go down the road of castor wedges which i wanted to stay away from in the beginning...
bounce some thoughts off me please
the ends are changing as you mention, but have you taken into consideration the diff is in a different position along the leaf, ie in a different point around the arc?
SOA modders cut the knuckles off the end and re-weld them at a new angle. this allows for everything to be optimum i guess.
SOA modders cut the knuckles off the end and re-weld them at a new angle. this allows for everything to be optimum i guess.
are you meaning the diff will move in a different way with the shackles at the other end?
if so i have considered it and im hoping that the stock drive shaft will have enough slide to deal with the new geometry of the system..
blokes with SOA are only doing offroad speeds.. whereas this thing needs to get me to work at 140kph after i miss the alarm every morning.. (yes they do go that fast.. no it definitely wasnt on a public road it was ummmmm... on a mates driveway)
i think wedges will be a better solution for the pinion angle.. because if i cut and weld the knuckles and am out by half a degree, there might be issues at warp speed..
nope, thats not what i was talking about but it is a good point, your driveshaft will compress as it hits little bumps in the road, not extend as current. though this is probably all very small amounts.
maybe whilst the car is sitting normal, grab a spare rear leaf and hold it up 'in position'. then we will know.
this is really good neRok ... with us blabbing every thought that comes into our head we're gonna have this thing nutted out and designed by the end of the week
... with us blabbing every thought that comes into our head we're gonna have this thing nutted out and designed by the end of the week
i have done this.. the spring is about 30cm LONGER:evil: and the locating pin is about 30mm rearwards of where the stock front one sits.. my current solution for this is to 'offset' the dropped crossmember 30mm forward... this will give me some more room to play with at the back also.
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