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Discussion Starter · #181 ·
http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/uploads/catalogs/RE5R05A.pdf

Here is a workshop manual for it. It is made by Jatco, not Nissan. And it has appeared in a lot of vehicles, 2wd and 4wd. Parts can be bought elsewhere for it, but I found Googling turned up very little. I left the parts gathering to the workshop that rebuilt it.

The Patrol box uses the external TCU version, so it is slightly different to some other models. But you can bet that most of the internals are the same. I believe the main differences are the TCU and valve body, which on other models are integrated together.

Griffiths Automatics at Caloundra on the Sunshine Coast in Qld are experts in my view, and had no issues at all rebuilding my box.
 

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Thanks Shane your a champion..I’ll give your trans man a call.. I was told that certain parts in the Patrol Re5 were beefed up to suit the TB48, which have now become obsolete.. But..
 

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Discussion Starter · #183 ·
I did not ever hear that. Seems unusual, but it is possible. Chris or Nick at Griffiths Automatics should be able to help you out.
 

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Hi GQShayne,
I'm also doing the same conversion, (and am mates with ducatimad, in spite of his sickness for Ducatis) but in a stock TD42Ti extended dualcab GU ute, with nothing more than a boost controller fitted. I know I'll have to have the TC stall point lowered, but do I understand correctly that I can either A) use the stock valve body and Compushift TCU, or B) use the Nomad valve body and the factory TCU ? Do I understand from this that the shift points on the factory TCU are fixed, and cannot be "flashed', or the sensor values manipulated with a piggyback controller, to allow both stock TCU and valve body to be employed ?
I have to say, I'm glad I didn't read this thread before I bought the box etc, or I might have thought twice about it ! Seems like you had a steep learning curve to navigate ! Bloody awesome job that you made it !
 

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Discussion Starter · #186 ·
Hi GQShayne,
I'm also doing the same conversion, (and am mates with ducatimad, in spite of his sickness for Ducatis) but in a stock TD42Ti extended dualcab GU ute, with nothing more than a boost controller fitted. I know I'll have to have the TC stall point lowered, but do I understand correctly that I can either A) use the stock valve body and Compushift TCU, or B) use the Nomad valve body and the factory TCU ? Do I understand from this that the shift points on the factory TCU are fixed, and cannot be "flashed', or the sensor values manipulated with a piggyback controller, to allow both stock TCU and valve body to be employed ?
I have to say, I'm glad I didn't read this thread before I bought the box etc, or I might have thought twice about it ! Seems like you had a steep learning curve to navigate ! Bloody awesome job that you made it !
Ok, just to recap quickly. Details are in the thread, but there is a lot to absorb.

The Patrol version of the RE5 has an external TCU. The factory TCU runs the 4.8 petrol engine and the gearbox. Once you separate the engine and box it will not work. So that leaves the only option of an aftermarket TCU. As far as I know the only option is the Compushift from Wholesale Automatics. When you have the Compushift TCU, the Nomad is of no benefit.

As far as a torque converter to match the RE5 to the TD42, memory tells me the standard converter does not work at all, unlike the RE4 where standard converters can be used. You would need to verify this with Wholesale. So that leaves the custom converter that they make for the conversion. As far as I know, no-one else makes one.

Wholesale made a converter specifically for me. My engine did not work with the normal custom converter they make, but my engine spec is quite unusual (at this point - no doubt more will be set up the same when it comes to camshaft timing specifically). Wholesale had obviously not seen an engine like it before. For the majority of TD42 engines their normal converter would be the best option.
 

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Longboi?? I gather your referring to the length of your truck?
Yeah, Nikki's son dubbed it that. Better than when he calls it the "Nissan F-truck" !
Why, you jealous because mine's longer than yours ? 🤣
Ok, just to recap quickly. Details are in the thread, but there is a lot to absorb.

The Patrol version of the RE5 has an external TCU. The factory TCU runs the 4.8 petrol engine and the gearbox. Once you separate the engine and box it will not work. So that leaves the only option of an aftermarket TCU. As far as I know the only option is the Compushift from Wholesale Automatics. When you have the Compushift TCU, the Nomad is of no benefit.

As far as a torque converter to match the RE5 to the TD42, memory tells me the standard converter does not work at all, unlike the RE4 where standard converters can be used. You would need to verify this with Wholesale. So that leaves the custom converter that they make for the conversion. As far as I know, no-one else makes one.

Wholesale made a converter specifically for me. My engine did not work with the normal custom converter they make, but my engine spec is quite unusual (at this point - no doubt more will be set up the same when it comes to camshaft timing specifically). Wholesale had obviously not seen an engine like it before. For the majority of TD42 engines their normal converter would be the best option.
Thanks for the response Shayne, although I have to question one of the facts in it. I was speaking to a serial TB48 GU owner today, and he is adamant that the ECU and TCU are 2 separate stand alone controllers, in 2 different locations in the car, on vehicles at least up to 2004. My box is an 02, and therefore he says is driven by a stand alone controller. Unfortunately, he didn't know if it was 'flash protected, or the shift points could be manipulated on it by someone with the appropriate knowledge (not me !). If I have to basically start from scratch on the $2100 Compushift, I might as well start from scratch on a $400 factory TCU ?
Greg
 

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Discussion Starter · #188 ·
Good luck with that then. To my knowledge it was not possible when I started my conversion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #189 ·
From what I understand, the main issue is that when the engine is disconnected then it will not work, so that suggests to me that if there is a separate TCU, it is taking inputs from the ECU. So you would need to be able to alter the wiring loom and provide whatever inputs the TCU needs. Assuming that is possible, it does not sound like a fun job to me. But lets assume you can do it.

Problem number two - programming. Can you actually alter the programming??? Who knows. Once again sounds like a problem I could do without. But once again, lets assume you can do it.

Problem number three - what data are you going to load into it??? You would need to have the data in table form of whatever the TCU would need, and that data would need to be developed. In my case, I am using the Compushift TCU that has been used before and there is a lot of data for, including basic settings to start with. I then spent a lot of time tuning the basics, before starting data logging. I then did more than 40 data logging runs, making changes as we went. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to do with a TCU that had not been used on this engine before.

When I decided to do the conversion, I was of the view that there is only one way to do it. The RE4 box you can go the whole hog with all aftermarket bits, but you can also do it on the cheap using factory parts cobbled together. Many people go the cheap option and get it to work fairly well, but without the tuning ability of the more expensive options. The RE5 is a more complex gearbox, and as far as I know, there is no cheap option at this stage. And in my case I would not want it done on the cheap anyway. The tuning and set up of the Compushift has transformed my vehicle when compared to basic settings. Without that fine tuning capability it would be nowhere near as good as it is when set-up to work at its best.
 

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From what I understand, the main issue is that when the engine is disconnected then it will not work, so that suggests to me that if there is a separate TCU, it is taking inputs from the ECU. So you would need to be able to alter the wiring loom and provide whatever inputs the TCU needs. Assuming that is possible, it does not sound like a fun job to me. But lets assume you can do it.

Problem number two - programming. Can you actually alter the programming??? Who knows. Once again sounds like a problem I could do without. But once again, lets assume you can do it.

Problem number three - what data are you going to load into it??? You would need to have the data in table form of whatever the TCU would need, and that data would need to be developed. In my case, I am using the Compushift TCU that has been used before and there is a lot of data for, including basic settings to start with. I then spent a lot of time tuning the basics, before starting data logging. I then did more than 40 data logging runs, making changes as we went. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to do with a TCU that had not been used on this engine before.

When I decided to do the conversion, I was of the view that there is only one way to do it. The RE4 box you can go the whole hog with all aftermarket bits, but you can also do it on the cheap using factory parts cobbled together. Many people go the cheap option and get it to work fairly well, but without the tuning ability of the more expensive options. The RE5 is a more complex gearbox, and as far as I know, there is no cheap option at this stage. And in my case I would not want it done on the cheap anyway. The tuning and set up of the Compushift has transformed my vehicle when compared to basic settings. Without that fine tuning capability it would be nowhere near as good as it is when set-up to work at its best.
I totally agree Shayne. I've been looking into it further over the last few days, and as you say, the programming is going to be the issue. The only inputs the factory TCU requires are engine revs and TPS, so that's not a big issue, but it seems the only way to tune the factory TCU is with a piggyback module, and the cost is not far short of the Compushift. The PITA factor, however, is many, many times that of the Compushift ! So that's decision 1 made. . . . . .
Decision 2 was the torque converter and flexplate. I had a conversation with a salesman at Wholesale AT (sadly, I would like to have spoken to someone who could actually discuss transmissions options . . . . Oh well, I may try again later), and all he wanted to do was flog me a kit of their torque converter and flexplate, and all the sundries to fit it, for an extra 3 grand, without being able to tell me why I needed to. My understanding is that the stock diesel power and torque shouldn't present a problem to either the factory petrol flexplate or TC (TB48 [email protected], & 400NM @3600, compared to TD42Ti 114KW @3600 & 360NM @ 2000rpm) . . . . .
I'm waiting on advice back from a second torque converter specialist (already had the most well known one locally assure me the stock TC was perfectly up to the job, and relatively simple to lower the stall and beef up the fins etc. but I like to get as much advice as I can on these things . . . . . . ).
Sadly, I got the impression from the gentleman at Wholesale Autos, that unless I purchased the whole lock stock and barrel, not just the $2300 Compushift, I couldn't expect any support or setup advice from them. I thought that was pretty disappointing, as I'm about to buy the Compushift from them . . . . . .
 

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Discussion Starter · #191 ·
Ok, I can understand WSA's position. If you buy their kit, they know it works. If you want to piece it together from other components, if you ring them with problems then you have an issue with who is responsible??? Is their electronics the cause or the converter supplied by someone else???? Each supplier could lay the blame with the other. Why take that risk???? WSA have developed a converter and other parts over a period of time and development. As you know I have conversed with Rodney at length on this, and there has been much work and testing go into their product. Would you buy a converter from someone else that has never actually fitted one to a TD42????? I most definately would not.

A standard converter will be useless as far as I know, so it needs to be modified in some way, as a diesel engine delivers torque very different to a petrol. I would only buy one from a business that has actually done it, and tested it, and used it. I am not interested in being a guinea pig for things that cost as much as this does.
 

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Discussion Starter · #192 ·
I have given this more thought, and will give you a couple of examples. You may know a bit about engine harmonics. It is discussed often among those doing engine mods to make a lot more power. Have a chat to your mate about it if you are not familiar with it. All engines are different.

What would not be so common knowledge is that it effects an auto gearbox. The engine harmonics cause pulsing in the gearbox hydraulic pressures. And these pressures are very important to how the gearbox works. Wholesale Automatics have designed a converter based on data collected when monitoring pressure pulsing within the box.

We also know that when it comes to the operation of any converter, the individual engine it is bolted to effects its operation. The differences between one TD42 and another will make a difference, my engine being a perfect example. There is no machine that can replicate this, you have to do actual testing.

This process of development is what guarantees you a product that works.
 

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Discussion Starter · #193 ·
In the process of setting my Compushift up, I came across a couple of things I could not get to my satisfaction, mainly with the torque converter clutch (TCC) lock and unlock. I could not get a happy medium. My solution was to run A & B Mode and have two options. Wholesale Auto's had not had any problems with it previously, not with vehicles they had tuned, or with customers doing their own. They had never used B Mode.

When doing data logging runs for them to set the shifting pressures, I mentioned that the TCC unlock was harsher than any of the shifts. They had not come across this before either. So I had an issue that had not been found previously, and my solution of using B Mode for a separate tune had not been done previously.

There was an opportunity for their main tuner to test my vehicle, whilst on other business in Qld, so we organised a day for testing. By this time they had made a switch to activate A/B Mode so I had that installed, but not really had time to set up a second map for it. But that was not the problem, so it was no an issue that it was not completed. After a quick test drive it was agreed that the TCC was harsh in its operation, which they had not seen before. In order to improve its operation, some live adjustments were made as I drove. There are a couple of things you can adjust with the TCC parameters, one of which is the throttle position that it unlocks. The later this is the more torque it is subjected to, and the more pronounced it is when it disengages. On engines that run 12mm pumps and make good power and torque it is up around 70% normally. Because of the low end torque my engine makes, it was set at 45%. I had it at about 53% but it seemed like a dodgy way to fix it. A big difference in the way it worked though. I was told there are no set marks for it, so if it works at 45% that is fine.

That improved it quite a lot. But the main problem is that the Compushift does not have software written for the TCC parameters. There are tables for the TCC, but no data in them. So there is no ability to change anything for the TCC. It was suggested to me that the time parameters are the thing that need altering. So some data logging runs were done, with the data to be sent to HGM in the US. This will be used to assist develop the software.

In the interim it is working quite well with the altered TPS setting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #194 ·
Something else I noticed I should mention. As the RE5 is electronically controlled, voltages are important. I noticed a couple of times that when the vehicle was started cold, and put into gear almost straight away, say after 10 seconds or so, it would not select a gear the first time. A bit of stuffing about would always get it going.

Thinking I had something not quite right, I went over the shifter and linkages again, but the result was the same. I then thought to check the voltages, so set up the Compushift app to be ready to read data on startup. When input voltage to the TCU is less then 12v it will not work. I had it at 11.88v just after startup, and the box would not select any gear. As soon as it gets to 12v it works fine.

Any number of reasons this might happen, including a bad earth or battery getting a bit tired etc. But something to remember when fault finding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #196 ·
Anyone else on the forum done the re5 conversion
Two other members that do not post much. One was a drive in and drive out job, and he just drives it. The other member has done his own and he has asked me to do some tuning for him. He is using the same components as I am, from what I know so far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #198 ·
Thanks would you say they are at or around the same power level
One is a bit less, the other I do not know yet, but it runs a twin garrett compound set-up.

I doubt power output will be a factor. All my discussions I had with experts on the trans strength revolved around the torque output. The fella with about 700nm is running a standard trans. Mine has some modified pieces as will have been mentioned earlier, and will handle closer to 900nm.
 

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im still wanting to do mine. but the 6k on wholesale parts is not going to happen at the present time. im super excited to do it though. the manual just gives me the ****s nowadays. gear changes just never happen at a good time. and going back into 4th from 5th is notchy so the most important gear change one makes is a nightmare.
maybe a chrissie present for myself i reckon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #200 ·
im still wanting to do mine. but the 6k on wholesale parts is not going to happen at the present time. im super excited to do it though. the manual just gives me the ****s nowadays. gear changes just never happen at a good time. and going back into 4th from 5th is notchy so the most important gear change one makes is a nightmare.
maybe a chrissie present for myself i reckon.
That is the down side. The RE5 really only has one way to make it fit, there is no budget way to do it like the RE4.
 
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