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GQ Dual Cab. TD42Ti with fruit.
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Discussion Starter #42
I did some more thinking about how it drives, and how it compares to another auto vehicle, rather then trying to compare it to how it was with my manual box. And I did some calculations on oil level, and figured the pickup is well and truly submerged. No noises, nothing out of the ordinary. So I decided it is ok to drive and test further, to get more info.

I made some phone calls to get expert opinions on various things too. All is pointing towards the torque converter being the culprit. Despite me advising WSA that my engine made lots of low end torque, I have been supplied a standard spec converter that they fit to all TD42's, stall speed of approx 2100rpm. My engine has very good driveability below this point, which has been very carefully developed over a few years, at quite a high cost. And now it goes in one end of the converter and doesn't come back out. :rolleyes:

When you get to 2000 rpm and over it is ok, but essentially you would be driving around at a higher rev point than is necessary, and the take up point is not very smooth either, a symptom of a mismatched converter I am told. So I need to get some data together for Wholesale Automatics, and we can determine whether I am right or not.

I was asked to do a stall test, but with the hand brake on and left foot hard on the brake pedal it still spun the tyres before getting to stall point. I would have to try it in 4wd, but I am not keen on locking the hubs on dry bitumen to try it.
 

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I was asked to do a stall test, but with the hand brake on and left foot hard on the brake pedal it still spun the tyres before getting to stall point. I would have to try it in 4wd, but I am not keen on locking the hubs on dry bitumen to try it.
did you try dropping tyre pressure? Could try 4wd on a more forgiving surface, surely all four brakes will hold it and if it doesn't ... have someone there filming.

What sort of torque are you making at 2000 RPM? 700-800Nm?

what's the flash stall?
 

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GQ Dual Cab. TD42Ti with fruit.
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Discussion Starter #46
did you try dropping tyre pressure? Could try 4wd on a more forgiving surface, surely all four brakes will hold it and if it doesn't ... have someone there filming.

What sort of torque are you making at 2000 RPM? 700-800Nm?

what's the flash stall?
I will try it again on a bit of uphill bitumen and see how it goes. Peak is about 750-775nm (not been on a dyno in a while), but at 2000rpm it is about 650nm I am reliably told.

Standard converter stall is 2000rpm approx. Once you get there you are off, but below that is the problem.
 

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nissan
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faaarrrrrrkkkkkkk,
well hopefully wsa can supply a better torque converter and get this sorted. apart from lack of drive how did it seem? i guess you probably didnt pay much attention due to other factors.
 

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GQshayne, you have me wondering about mine now. I thought it seemed sluggish off the mark, but just thought that it was me changing over to an auto and that's how they drove. I am doing my water pump this weekend, so once completed I will take for another drive and see how it compares to what you are stating. Might even get my mate to take it for a drive and see his thoughts as well.
 

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GQ Dual Cab. TD42Ti with fruit.
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Discussion Starter #50
I have not done any tuning, as if the converter is to be changed there is no point. So it needs a bit of set-up, once again as the standard setting does not suit my engine. So some shift points and pressures need tweaking. But in general it works quite well.

I am going to do some testing tomorrow, to get some data for torque converter decision making. There are other options for stall rate, but WSA are supplying the one I have to all TD42 GU conversions, so that there are no issues with engines bogging down with too low a stall rate. Standard is 2000, but 1600 and 1200 was also mentioned in discussion. I think you can rule out 1200, as it was suggested it would be hard to hold on the brakes at lights etc, but 1600 rpm may suit my engine better.

I will post up here what I find out.
 

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..... I think you can rule out 1200, as it was suggested it would be hard to hold on the brakes at lights etc, but 1600 rpm may suit my engine better.
200 Series Cruisers don't move until there's 1600 on the tacho. Maybe that's ^ the reason. Still seems too high to me.....
 

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Discussion Starter #52
200 Series Cruisers don't move until there's 1600 on the tacho. Maybe that's ^ the reason. Still seems too high to me.....
That is pretty high, I would not like that much. In my case, the vehicle will move at idle, but not a lot happens until higher up towards 2000rpm. Previous engine set-ups I have had did not have the low end torque that I do now. So I can see how you would bog some TD42's down if the stall was too low. But as my engine is now, it is not a factor. WSA wanted me to do a test with it in first gear at 1200rpm, with the torque converter manually locked up, to see if it would bog the engine. I can run it locked up in first gear at idle, and it pulls away cleanly. I can also do it in second gear at 1100rpm, and did not bother trying any lower.

So it looks like I will need to change the converter. And then tune the electronics to get the shifts suited to my engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Box back out this weekend, and the converter is going back to Wholesale for them to lower the stall speed. Bugger, but necessary. Will no doubt soak up three weeks or so, so that will mean no work can be done on electronics set-up either.

And the electronics certainly need some sorting. To be honest, it is not suitable to be sold to the general public in my view. Not yet anyway, as it is still being developed, something I was not told when I bought it. There more I learn about it, the more issues arise. As an example, the "file" I was given to start with has data from a Chev LS2 file still in it.

Wholesale have asked me to give them feedback so that some of this can be sorted out.
 

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Gee hopefully they will look after you with the Tc considering you are essentially helping them develop there kit at your expense.
As I'm sure you know, with anything non standard there is always more issue's to sort than we would like.
I am sure it will be worth the effort once it's sorted.

jim
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Gee hopefully they will look after you with the Tc considering you are essentially helping them develop there kit at your expense.
As I'm sure you know, with anything non standard there is always more issue's to sort than we would like.
I am sure it will be worth the effort once it's sorted.

jim
Yes they are. Removing it and sending it down is up to me, but they will modify it and send it back. So I think that is as good as can be expected, and the cost to remove it again is only my time.

The problem I have had, is trying to explain to people that my engine is not a normal TD42 with a 12mm pump. They think they know what that is, and I am trying to tell them that mine is a different spec to what is "average". But that is hard to do. My conversations with WSA are a good example of this. I just had to over it and over it to convince them that the Borg Warner EFR, highly tuned pump to suit, electronic boost control, cam timing change etc add up to more low end torque than the majority of engines. In the end, talking about being off boost and getting turbo lag kinda sorted it out. Their converter is designed so that it cannot load the engine too early which causes lag, hence the 2000rpm stall. So running some stall tests, and testing lag on my engine at low rpm with the converter manually locked, convinced them that with careful set-up a TD42 can do a bit more than what they are used to. They wanted me to do a "lag" test at 1200rpm to make sure it was ok, and I did the test at idle. Convinced.

And what helped me make my decision was considering the cost of this conversion. It is an expensive exercise, so for the high price being "almost right" is not good enough. It would always annoy me that it was not as good as it should be, so fixing it was the best option.
 

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Yes they are. Removing it and sending it down is up to me, but they will modify it and send it back. So I think that is as good as can be expected, and the cost to remove it again is only my time.

The problem I have had, is trying to explain to people that my engine is not a normal TD42 with a 12mm pump. They think they know what that is, and I am trying to tell them that mine is a different spec to what is "average". But that is hard to do. My conversations with WSA are a good example of this. I just had to over it and over it to convince them that the Borg Warner EFR, highly tuned pump to suit, electronic boost control, cam timing change etc add up to more low end torque than the majority of engines. In the end, talking about being off boost and getting turbo lag kinda sorted it out. Their converter is designed so that it cannot load the engine too early which causes lag, hence the 2000rpm stall. So running some stall tests, and testing lag on my engine at low rpm with the converter manually locked, convinced them that with careful set-up a TD42 can do a bit more than what they are used to. They wanted me to do a "lag" test at 1200rpm to make sure it was ok, and I did the test at idle. Convinced.

And what helped me make my decision was considering the cost of this conversion. It is an expensive exercise, so for the high price being "almost right" is not good enough. It would always annoy me that it was not as good as it should be, so fixing it was the best option.
i await the outcome of this as i know my engine specs will be pretty similar to yours and would also be pretty bummed to loose the low down torque achieved by all the work done thus far.
have they given a time frame of eta to mod and return your converter?
 

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When I first had my engine conversion done it was with the factory TCU. It moved off at idle almost immediately D was selected.

When I had the Compushift installed it never did that, and in fact now doesn't engage the gear until several seconds pass. If it's on a slope the car will roll several metres before the gear is engaged.
 

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Yes they are. Removing it and sending it down is up to me, but they will modify it and send it back. So I think that is as good as can be expected, and the cost to remove it again is only my time.

The problem I have had, is trying to explain to people that my engine is not a normal TD42 with a 12mm pump. They think they know what that is, and I am trying to tell them that mine is a different spec to what is "average". But that is hard to do. My conversations with WSA are a good example of this. I just had to over it and over it to convince them that the Borg Warner EFR, highly tuned pump to suit, electronic boost control, cam timing change etc add up to more low end torque than the majority of engines. In the end, talking about being off boost and getting turbo lag kinda sorted it out. Their converter is designed so that it cannot load the engine too early which causes lag, hence the 2000rpm stall. So running some stall tests, and testing lag on my engine at low rpm with the converter manually locked, convinced them that with careful set-up a TD42 can do a bit more than what they are used to. They wanted me to do a "lag" test at 1200rpm to make sure it was ok, and I did the test at idle. Convinced.

And what helped me make my decision was considering the cost of this conversion. It is an expensive exercise, so for the high price being "almost right" is not good enough. It would always annoy me that it was not as good as it should be, so fixing it was the best option.
Absolutely mate you can't go to all the trouble and then not set it up properly, going to the effort of getting the tc as good as it can be will be the icing on the cake.
Looking forward to hear the outcome once all sorted, it's the transmission I think the TD42 should have gotten.

jim
 

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Discussion Starter #59
i await the outcome of this as i know my engine specs will be pretty similar to yours and would also be pretty bummed to loose the low down torque achieved by all the work done thus far.
have they given a time frame of eta to mod and return your converter?
Yes, Rodney has said that they will look at it as soon as it is received, and it should only take them a few days to sort it out. Electronics will be better in future as well, as when mine is sorted that tuning file will be available for engines similar in spec to ours.
 

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Discussion Starter #60
When I first had my engine conversion done it was with the factory TCU. It moved off at idle almost immediately D was selected.

When I had the Compushift installed it never did that, and in fact now doesn't engage the gear until several seconds pass. If it's on a slope the car will roll several metres before the gear is engaged.
I assume you have the 4 speed auto, which in terms of the electronics is a very different gearbox to the 5 speed auto. I suggest you contact them with your comments as it may be able to be changed.
 
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