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GQ Dual Cab. TD42Ti with fruit.
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Discussion Starter #121
Torque converter is much improved, with much more low end drive than before. This was the aim, so at this point it seems to be in the zone of where it needs to be. Actual stall speed seems to be around 1800rpm, but that is only during a stall test, which is never replicated on the road. On a different engine the same converter may stall at 1600 rpm. It is much broader in its operation, which is the important factor.

I cannot answer your converter strength question. As mentioned above, locking the converter all the time to make it feel like a manual is not the best method in my view. I tried this, and the box works much better when using it as it is intended, locking it at higher speeds only. Locking it all the time negates the advantage the auto has over a manual. That is how it seems to me anyway.
 

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this is awesome news all round. sounds like your onto a winner. once your done id like to see a couple of videos of how it drives if you dont mind. id assume it gets thru the gears pretty quick if you give it plenty of loud pedal?
 

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it took me quiet sometimes to get all the programming right. I had to send some log files to the suppliers for some assistant ( mine is from the the shiftkit.com.au, and also stage 3 - heavy duty valve body). by the way, do you have a ATF temperature sensor? the increased torque and higher fluid pressure will also increase the ATF temperature. so i managed to have the TC (factory RE4) locked @ difference speed
and unlocked at about 56% of throat position.
Out of interest (if you're aware), what is the std RE4 TCM unlock TPS value?
 

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Nissan Patrol GU4 2006 with Cummins ISDE4.5 270HP , 830 NM Engine Conversion
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I have no ideas what is the standard tps unlock value for the TC from Nissan's tcu. It it is very low for sure. Since back to zd30 time with the factory TCU, I could feel that the TC keep unlocked as soon as I have a bit more fuel. Or on the slight incline section of road. But after I installed the Cummins, I played around the custom TCU settings and tried 50% now 58% of the tps setting. The Cummins produce big torque from very low at 1300 rpm and peak at 1900 rpm at 830nm. So I was quite worried when the TC's locking disk could be broken or simply worn out. But after one year, it still works very well. Only very little wear material on the bottom of the pan in my last inspection. Thanks to the custom heavy duty stage 3 valve body which increases the line pressure up 40psi. The only area I wish to improve is a true low stall TC. With the current factory TC combined the 4000 max rpm the engine is very flexible. So if I push it hard. The patrol drivers like sport car. but when the rpm is out of the engine's optimised range ( 1350 to 2000) it will start to use more fuel.. most time, the engine's rpm stays below 2000 when cruising around....... One day my TC is wear out. I will try a low stall unit.

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Nissan Patrol GU4 2006 with Cummins ISDE4.5 270HP , 830 NM Engine Conversion
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this is my current TCU setting:
520535
 

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GQ Dual Cab. TD42Ti with fruit.
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Discussion Starter #126
this is awesome news all round. sounds like your onto a winner. once your done id like to see a couple of videos of how it drives if you dont mind. id assume it gets thru the gears pretty quick if you give it plenty of loud pedal?
Yes, when you give it 75% throttle or more it is really moving. Getting the shift points right makes a big difference to this. I have not done any fine tuning with this, as I have been focused on 25% throttle changes, TC settings, and 5th to 4th downshift. So I will need to fine tune the shift points after I finish with the shifting smoothness. I have another tuning fine to look at to compare data now, so hopefully another week or so should have it sorted. Will try and do a video to post up here when it is finished.
 

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How hard to change the TC ? I am thinking to try a low stall TC in the near future. I don't want to remove the engine, but if I am doing at home garage, will it be a problem? Do I need to buy a transmission Jack to help moving back the transmission? Compare to installation nor the engine, is it an easier job?

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GQ Dual Cab. TD42Ti with fruit.
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Discussion Starter #128
How hard to change the TC ? I am thinking to try a low stall TC in the near future. I don't want to remove the engine, but if I am doing at home garage, will it be a problem? Do I need to buy a transmission Jack to help moving back the transmission? Compare to installation nor the engine, is it an easier job?

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That is hard to answer for sure mate, as your engine and box are both different to mine, so clearances will not be the same.

I can only comment on the TD42. Removal and installation of the auto is slightly easier than the manual box, partly due to the height of the auto being a bit lower, and also as there is no clutch to have to line up. But the weight of the box and transfer is substantial, so while I did it on the garage floor I had a transmission jack. It is not an easy job. It is also not in my list of top 10 fun things to do. With the RE5 and transfer you can remove them still bolted together. Harder to do due to the extra weight though. I still consider it easier than removing the engine.

To change the TC you will need to get the box back enough to get it out, but due to clearance to the firewall you will not be able to move it straight back, it will also need to be lowered. I sat mine on stands while the TC was being modified. It is not bolted into the box, so once the box is clear it can be removed by hand. Before the box can be removed however, the TC needs to be unbolted from the flex plate.
 

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Discussion Starter #130
Not really, unfortunately. The couple of fault codes I had are still there, and I have not been able to fix them. Not easy to do, so I have no idea at this point to be honest.
 

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Discussion Starter #133
Besides that are you happy with the way it drives?
Yes I am Jim. I had to adjust my thinking a bit, and once I did that I started judging it as an auto, not comparing it to a manual. So while it is a "slushbox" and has that typical auto feel of making noise and not moving sometimes, it is quite deceptive. As an example, I have a bumpy windy narrow bitumen road near me that I travel often, and with the manual I would drive it in 4th. Some corners though, you should really be in third, but I would just lug it over in 4th. Driving that road in the auto, I was conscious of the engine revs being up as the converter slipped, so I tried locking the converter earlier, to make it feel like the manual.

With the converter locked it is just like the manual. So it would plod along just like it did before, and on those slow corners would be the same as it used to be, really wanting the be in third. Leave the converter unlocked, and drive it like an auto, and it drives that whole road easily in fourth, and without slowing down or wanting to change gear. I also noticed that just about any time I looked at the tacho, it is somewhere around 2000-2200 rpm. No coincidence that is right in the peak of torque production.

My biggest complaint with the manual was downshifting 5th back to 4th as you were going up and down bigger hills with a bit of a load on. The old manual was slow and cumbersome, and if you left it too late you could be off boost when you got back to 4th. Get to the top of the hill and change to 5th, and then on the next hill back to 4th...……. :unsure: With the auto it is all too easy. And that is using it in automatic mode too. The tiptronic function will no doubt be very useful in this circumstance, but I have not really used that much, as I am still testing.
 

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Sounds good mate, mine also when I changed to an auto just killed performance so it seemed.
Partly because of going to auto and partly because of the gear ratio's and ratio spread of the 4 speed.
But as you say it is deceiving, the performance is a lot better than it seems especially with the 5 speed would be near ideal.
 

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Discussion Starter #135
I know exactly what you mean - the way the torque converter works gives you that impression. But I reckon in a drag race the auto would win.

I think part of the initial impression was because of the nature of the engine too. The old TD42 is quite noisy, and the extra revs that the auto lets the engine run at, is very noticeable. In my case, I used to drive the manual at quite low revs mostly, so now with the auto it is running a bit higher. But as I mentioned above, that means it is mostly right in the area of peak torque, so you always have good response, and it never bogs down. And while it feels "revvy" compared to the manual, it is mostly between 2000 and 2500 rpm, so it is more about the difference in engine noise than actual high revs. The more I drive it, the less I notice it.

And as for my tuning dramas, things may have improved today. One of the issues I have was a shift error, which I could not get rid of. There was a recent system update which effects it, but I was still having the problem. But it turns out I did not have the update loaded. Hopefully it will be sorted now.

The other issue is that the home user does not have any experience in making software changes, especially if they have not driven an RE5 before. In my case, I do not know how the box is supposed to shift etc, so it is hard to know when it is right. Also, any adjustments are made by "feel", as you do not have any equipment to use. Wholesale Automatics have equipment they use as a data logger, and they use that to identify issues and then make changes. The home user cannot do this. However, this is about to change, with a datalogger function being added. It is under testing now, so will be available soon. So then Wholesale will be able to read data from a customers TCU, and identify any changes that need making. That will be a massive improvement. So rather than beat my head against the wall any more, I will wait for that to be available.
 

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Good to hear you are getting there Shane. I am feeling the same a you were, trying to compare it to the manual. You just can't. I am really coming to love the auto and the gear changes.

One thing that I noticed was 12v power. May not be an issue with yours, but when I changed over to electric fans and water pump it really affected my 12v power use. I have since fixed a fair amount of the issue, with soon a new alternator from America and a Lithium starting battery. When I upgraded my charge cable from my alternator to the battery, I could literally feel the smoothness in the gearbox. Maybe check out to see if you have any earthing or 12v issues. When Wholsesale converted mine, they were having earthing issues and added additional earthing wires across different areas. I have since cleaned all earths and like I said, fixed 90% of my 12v issues.

Just a thought.
 

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Something that also needs to be remembered is that a torque converter is also a torque multiplier, anytime it's "slipping" it's multiplying the torque.
Adds to the performance deception.

jim
 

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GQ Dual Cab. TD42Ti with fruit.
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Discussion Starter #138
Yes, earths are very important. Mine were all sorted long ago, as it always pays to re-do such things with an old vehicle. I also have an upgraded charging cable too, as like many people, I have a lot of electrical extras. Mine is all good now.

Mine is working quite well now, and I have not fine tuned the upshifts yet either. When they were close I left them alone to sort other things. So getting the shifts correct for the engine will make it better too. I have been asked by our performance minded member @OldMav what boost levels I was seeing, in order to see if it is shifting when it needs to, but I had to tell him that I hadn't looked! :rolleyes: So I will need to sort that out before I can consider the job done.
 

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Discussion Starter #139
Something that also needs to be remembered is that a torque converter is also a torque multiplier, anytime it's "slipping" it's multiplying the torque.
Adds to the performance deception.

jim
Absolutely, and this occurred to me on my local road where the engine used to lug a bit with the manual. The auto just does it easier. The manual would be in 4th and a good bit of throttle to lug over the hill, and the auto goes over in 4th at higher speed and with less throttle.
 

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Discussion Starter #140
I have driven the ute a couple of times, doing other things rather than gearbox related, but the shifting error did not appear again, despite me trying to get it to. So it looks like the firmware update on the TCU has fixed it - so far.

See how time goes next weekend, it may be possible to do the final setting up of the shift points. See how we go for time.
 
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