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I Have Imaginary Friends
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Nice work, my second battery is in the chassis rail under the rear passenger side, frees up a bit of room in the engine bay.
 

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Thats a tight engine bay, but it looks the goods! No second battery under my bonnet, so i've got room to play with. if i need to jump start the 'trol I've got one of those lithium jump packs. I'll run some lithium Batteries in the rear with a DC-DC charger.

I'm setting my rig up as a tourer, so i'm not looking at going ridiculous with anything, and need to find room for a fuel-water separator somewhere under the bonnet and i think a custom bracket where the second battery would go is a good candidate.
 

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09 ZD30 CRD Wagon
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Discussion Starter #143
Thats a tight engine bay, but it looks the goods! No second battery under my bonnet, so i've got room to play with. if i need to jump start the 'trol I've got one of those lithium jump packs. I'll run some lithium Batteries in the rear with a DC-DC charger.

I'm setting my rig up as a tourer, so i'm not looking at going ridiculous with anything, and need to find room for a fuel-water separator somewhere under the bonnet and i think a custom bracket where the second battery would go is a good candidate.
yeah I reckon that space for aux battery is so handy for a few things. Airbox, catch can, fuel separator... even a compressor. Especially on later models with ABS and rear aircon where the bay is tighter still.
 

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Nice work, my second battery is in the chassis rail under the rear passenger side, frees up a bit of room in the engine bay.
Hi Rod,

How do you mean "in"?

Was it much work?
 

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I Have Imaginary Friends
Patrol Hybrid.
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On the rail. Was made by Brunswick. Basically a steel battery box hinged off a tube hinge, shouldn’t be too difficult to manufacture. Definitely need to put a ‘sealed’ maintenance free battery in it. I’ll try to locate some pictures.
 
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I Have Imaginary Friends
Patrol Hybrid.
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Photos are a bit dodgy but use your imagination.
8BF40983-23FA-4282-B172-19F833C12D38.jpeg
41D6086C-1C5B-4EEA-980B-E3FD97D1E258.jpeg
4073CA5E-CBAD-4DDE-9A45-C6FDF336C30A.jpeg
65A04F8A-F663-4A89-BD53-446C7B8A9BB0.jpeg
9C23B5E0-9E36-4627-B124-7DD45B0EC267.jpeg
386AC8E0-F8D4-4122-B42D-073B9F178CB4.jpeg
E828C5F0-7E92-4E64-89B9-5F18AC258DEE.jpeg
 

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yeah I reckon that space for aux battery is so handy for a few things. Airbox, catch can, fuel separator... even a compressor. Especially on later models with ABS and rear aircon where the bay is tighter still.
I squarely fall into that "later model" category, The ABS and rear aircon have made a mess of the engine bay, so I'm all kinds of keen to use that big block of spare space for something OTHER than a second battery. Ideally i'd like to remove the rear aircon unit to get rid of the weight and excess piping under the hood if i can.
 

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09 ZD30 CRD Wagon
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Discussion Starter #148
Last week I did a 2000km trip from Sydney to the north coast via a few spots. Great camping, scenery and weather.

The patrol went very well, but I became sick to ****ing death of it's highway behaviour. The tillix+needle post remap has been great for down low torque, but highways are just a bit of a screaming nightmare at 21psi the whole time. My fuel usage was 13-14lph which I think could be better too.

Today I did a flat highway run with 80-100km/h speed limits, then got rid of the tillix and returned to the factory vac solenoid for the drive home on the same highway. The tillix is capped at 21.5psi, and I was using cruise control.
Here's some results.

Tillix + Needle
  • 80kmh, fourth gear, ~18.5psi
  • 90kmh, fifth gear, ~19psi
  • 100kmh, fifth gear, ~21psi
Tillix + Vacsol
  • 80kmh, fourth gear, ~8.5psi
  • 90kmh, fifth gear, ~11.5psi
  • 100kmh, fifth gear, ~ 13.5psi
In terms of around town, initially I thought I had lost my low down torque, but I was wrong. Once I tested it, I realised I was still hitting 20+psi at about 1900rpm (same as before). In fact, the apparent difference in torque seems to be that between gear changes and with foot off the accelerator, the RPM is dropping off nice and quickly now with the vacsol.
Seems that when I had the needle valve, the RPMs would "hold" higher between gear changes or coming off the accelerator.
My driving style compensated really quickly, and in fact I was finding my gear changes felt a lot smoother because of this. The power is still there when I want it.

I didn't notice any rise in EGT, but having said that my gauge is the combo redarc one which starts at 300 and moves in increments of about 20, so I'm not getting the finer details there.
I also didn't have a chance to try any big uphills at highway speeds, but on some smaller hills around here I would still hit 21psi boost when I kicked the boot in. I think the EGTs will be same as before on long hills, as the boost will be there when under load. Will test this out soon.

Initial fuel economy suggest a significant improvement, although I really need a bigger run to confirm this.
I will say, the final 30min leg of my trip (with scangauge fuel usage reset) which is predominantly 80kmh and about 5 mins of 50-60kmh city, gave me a average fuel economy of 9.4lph. I certainly haven't seen under 10lph since before the remap/tillix.

The noise is seriously improved. That big bloody stainless snorkel (even with the ram head), and all aluminium airbox/pipework seems to generate a lot of induction noise. At highway speeds at 21psi, it's really audible. Sitting at 13ish, it's hardly noticeable.

I'm really happy with the combination of remap + tillix + vacsol

Photos below (obviously taken by my passenger) indicate numbers. Ignore the "AVG" for average fuel consumption on these pics, but "LPH" is the instant fuel usage.
EGT is a separate gauge but remained under the 300 mark for both
522066

522067


And in case anyone needed a reminder of how to set it up
522068


522069
 

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Nice review on your setup, there's nothing like a good long run to find this stuff out. It's a shame about your needle valve setup not being amazing. however to counter your findings and conclusion, i would say that your needle valve wasn't setup correctly. I've got one here ready to install once i get around to replacing my intercooler so I've been doing a lot of reading on how to set it up and from what i can find, you should be balancing the dawes and needle for about 10-psi at highway speeds.

That maybe why your fuel usage was so high > more air = more fuel in order to maintain the proper combustion AFR.
 

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09 ZD30 CRD Wagon
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Discussion Starter #150
Nice review on your setup, there's nothing like a good long run to find this stuff out. It's a shame about your needle valve setup not being amazing. however to counter your findings and conclusion, i would say that your needle valve wasn't setup correctly. I've got one here ready to install once i get around to replacing my intercooler so I've been doing a lot of reading on how to set it up and from what i can find, you should be balancing the dawes and needle for about 10-psi at highway speeds.

That maybe why your fuel usage was so high > more air = more fuel in order to maintain the proper combustion AFR.
I see what you're saying, but from what I understand, having a needle setup at 10psi at 100kmh (roughly 2450rpm for me) would just mean that the needle is not allowing full boost until after that RPM is met, which would mean a loss of low down boost
 

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I see what you're saying, but from what I understand, having a needle setup at 10psi at 100kmh (roughly 2450rpm for me) would just mean that the needle is not allowing full boost until after that RPM is met, which would mean a loss of low down boost
hmmm... I'm still wrapping my head around how it all works, but my understanding is that the needle is allowing some vacuum leak at all time and allowing the feedback from the boost line to determine the boost curve. by taking the vac solenoid and ECU out of the equation the boost curve is alot more predictable. Again, I haven't done the install yet, so i haven't had the joy of balancing and playing with it, but from what i read, it is a balancing act between the two to get the perfect amount of highway speed boost, and low down torque and responsiveness. Anecdotally, I see people only opening the needle 1/8th, or less, of a turn.

now that i think of it, that might be why a lot of people seem to run the needle valve in the cabin - can adjust this balance on the fly depending on the task at hand.

personally i don't want to see full boost at highway speeds, that leaves me no headroom to put my boot into it to pass a truck on an uphill stretch - plus the whole burning more fuel thing.

EDIT: @jackbyo out of interest, what method did you use to setup the Dawes and Needle valve?
 

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Discussion Starter #152
hmmm... I'm still wrapping my head around how it all works, but my understanding is that the needle is allowing some vacuum leak at all time and allowing the feedback from the boost line to determine the boost curve. by taking the vac solenoid and ECU out of the equation the boost curve is alot more predictable. Again, I haven't done the install yet, so i haven't had the joy of balancing and playing with it, but from what i read, it is a balancing act between the two to get the perfect amount of highway speed boost, and low down torque and responsiveness. Anecdotally, I see people only opening the needle 1/8th, or less, of a turn.

now that i think of it, that might be why a lot of people seem to run the needle valve in the cabin - can adjust this balance on the fly depending on the task at hand.

personally i don't want to see full boost at highway speeds, that leaves me no headroom to put my boot into it to pass a truck on an uphill stretch - plus the whole burning more fuel thing.

EDIT: @jackbyo out of interest, what method did you use to setup the Dawes and Needle valve?
Yep the in cabin needle is for exactly that. Boost early when you’re around town, but dial it back on highway to drop the cruising Boost. Definitely something I couldn’t be bothered with managing, and there’s better options out there now.

I setup my Tillix and needle just like the diagram above, except my needle was under bonnet.
I switched to the vacsol as per that diagram, which only required changing three short hoses. I kept hoses and t-piece from the needle setup so it’s easy to swap back if needed.

Super cheap auto sell Mackay rubber vacuum hose, 4mm ID which is what you need.

Seeing as you’ve got a CRD, I just suggest you try with Tillix/dawes + vacsol first. Lots and lots of people have gone back to this setup after a remap with good results. In fact I’ve only seen one detractor with a CRD, which makes me think his vacsol might be buggered?
You can always add the needle in later to try. Only takes a minute to swap between the two setups
 

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I'm probably going to run with the needle and dawes setup from the get-go, the big push for me to install it is because I get a lot of boost flutter and surging, so having a smooth and constant boost curve is very appealing. Depending on the engine load, etc, theres a huge flat spot right in my boost at 2k RPM. It's good to know that vacuum line can be had quite easily for when i eventually change my mind or if igo down the road of aftermarket turbo, etc... or you know...when i accidentally cut the provided hoses the wrong length...

EDIT: what's your max boost set at in your ECU remap?
 

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Last week I did a 2000km trip from Sydney to the north coast via a few spots. Great camping, scenery and weather.

The patrol went very well, but I became sick to ****ing death of it's highway behaviour. The tillix+needle post remap has been great for down low torque, but highways are just a bit of a screaming nightmare at 21psi the whole time. My fuel usage was 13-14lph which I think could be better too.

Today I did a flat highway run with 80-100km/h speed limits, then got rid of the tillix and returned to the factory vac solenoid for the drive home on the same highway. The tillix is capped at 21.5psi, and I was using cruise control.
Here's some results.

Tillix + Needle
  • 80kmh, fourth gear, ~18.5psi
  • 90kmh, fifth gear, ~19psi
  • 100kmh, fifth gear, ~21psi
Tillix + Vacsol
  • 80kmh, fourth gear, ~8.5psi
  • 90kmh, fifth gear, ~11.5psi
  • 100kmh, fifth gear, ~ 13.5psi
In terms of around town, initially I thought I had lost my low down torque, but I was wrong. Once I tested it, I realised I was still hitting 20+psi at about 1900rpm (same as before). In fact, the apparent difference in torque seems to be that between gear changes and with foot off the accelerator, the RPM is dropping off nice and quickly now with the vacsol.
Seems that when I had the needle valve, the RPMs would "hold" higher between gear changes or coming off the accelerator.
My driving style compensated really quickly, and in fact I was finding my gear changes felt a lot smoother because of this. The power is still there when I want it.

I didn't notice any rise in EGT, but having said that my gauge is the combo redarc one which starts at 300 and moves in increments of about 20, so I'm not getting the finer details there.
I also didn't have a chance to try any big uphills at highway speeds, but on some smaller hills around here I would still hit 21psi boost when I kicked the boot in. I think the EGTs will be same as before on long hills, as the boost will be there when under load. Will test this out soon.

Initial fuel economy suggest a significant improvement, although I really need a bigger run to confirm this.
I will say, the final 30min leg of my trip (with scangauge fuel usage reset) which is predominantly 80kmh and about 5 mins of 50-60kmh city, gave me a average fuel economy of 9.4lph. I certainly haven't seen under 10lph since before the remap/tillix.

The noise is seriously improved. That big bloody stainless snorkel (even with the ram head), and all aluminium airbox/pipework seems to generate a lot of induction noise. At highway speeds at 21psi, it's really audible. Sitting at 13ish, it's hardly noticeable.

I'm really happy with the combination of remap + tillix + vacsol

Photos below (obviously taken by my passenger) indicate numbers. Ignore the "AVG" for average fuel consumption on these pics, but "LPH" is the instant fuel usage.
EGT is a separate gauge but remained under the 300 mark for both
View attachment 522066
View attachment 522067

And in case anyone needed a reminder of how to set it up
View attachment 522068

View attachment 522069
Seems it worked out for you too.
 

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09 ZD30 CRD Wagon
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Discussion Starter #155
EDIT: what's your max boost set at in your ECU remap?
I'm not sure what you mean by that. As far as I know, the max boost is controlled only by the tillix/dawes. ECPT set the tillix at 22 when they did the first remap.

Before I had done anything, I would see spikes up to 26 regularly, and even 28. This is while on a flat highway at 100k cruise.
The tillix kit was installed by ECPT same day they did the first remap, but by that stage I had trialled an HPD boost controller (no needle) which was an improvement also.

Let me put it this way, I've now trialled four setups... In this chronological order. This is my verdict so far
  • Factory boost control, no remap.
    • Power: Gutless
    • Drivability: Bad. Boost fluctuations and flat spots
  • Tillix + Vacsol, no needle valve, no remap.
    • Power: Slight improvement, still low
    • Drivability: Significantly improved
  • Tillix + Needle + Remap.
    • Power: Massive increase
    • Drivability: Great low response, but always on boost (20+psi cruise)
  • Tillix + Vacsol + Remap (No needle)
    • Power: Same as above
    • Drivability: Best
Edit: Most important thing is to trial stuff and read up on the latest research on these forums. These threads are very interesting.


Make sure you don't do a vacsol "delete" unless you're confident you won't ever use it. Most of us, including ECPT, just leave it sitting there plugged into the wiring harness, with no hoses connected so it won't throw a code. No reason to get rid of it in any case.
 

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Thanks for the links mate, i can't believe i hadn;t come across these two threads, plenty of good reading to be had there, and some thoughts and experiments to be had once i get around to installing and configuring my system properly. I like what i'm reading on the "two needle, one dawes" thread, there's some good brains out there.
 

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2016 CRD wagon
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1,215 Posts
@J0SHMAN
Until you've actually tried out the combinations @jackbyo listed above, you will not know how your vehicle responds. They're all a bit different. That's why good tuners don't just load a stock tune into your vehicle's ECU and send you on your way. They all respond differently. The high boost scenario Jack mentions with tillix and needle is very common. If you adjust your needle open to lower the boost at cruise you loose low down driveability. That's why we used to run a dual dawes/tillix, so we could switch between the two, some even automated that process pending throttle position and egt's.
I'm probably the bloke referred to above who hasn't had success with using the vacsol after remap. My vehicle is a 2016. It's highly unlikely the vacsol is buggered. Unfortunately I'm not the only one who hasn't had success with this (just call any reputable tuner and ask how many patrols they tune without manual boost control?). We just don't rain on anyone's parade that has had success with it.
I've got my own theories why mine didn't work. Slowly working through them as I constantly learn more about how the system works (I've owned a zd30 patrol for 14 years, only been working on this one for 4) and I certainly don't claim to know everything. There is lots of new (and old) info in the threads Jack highlighted above that keep you thinking. If it was just plain and easy to set up the perfect system, these conversations wouldn't even exist.
Be sure to share your findings with everyone as you trial each system.
Thanks for the honest write up @jackbyo 👍
Cheers
Trev
 

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09 ZD30 CRD Wagon
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Discussion Starter #158
@J0SHMAN
Until you've actually tried out the combinations @jackbyo listed above, you will not know how your vehicle responds. They're all a bit different. That's why good tuners don't just load a stock tune into your vehicle's ECU and send you on your way. They all respond differently. The high boost scenario Jack mentions with tillix and needle is very common. If you adjust your needle open to lower the boost at cruise you loose low down driveability. That's why we used to run a dual dawes/tillix, so we could switch between the two, some even automated that process pending throttle position and egt's.
I'm probably the bloke referred to above who hasn't had success with using the vacsol after remap. My vehicle is a 2016. It's highly unlikely the vacsol is buggered. Unfortunately I'm not the only one who hasn't had success with this (just call any reputable tuner and ask how many patrols they tune without manual boost control?). We just don't rain on anyone's parade that has had success with it.
I've got my own theories why mine didn't work. Slowly working through them as I constantly learn more about how the system works (I've owned a zd30 patrol for 14 years, only been working on this one for 4) and I certainly don't claim to know everything. There is lots of new (and old) info in the threads Jack highlighted above that keep you thinking. If it was just plain and easy to set up the perfect system, these conversations wouldn't even exist.
Be sure to share your findings with everyone as you trial each system.
Thanks for the honest write up @jackbyo 👍
Cheers
Trev
Ah fair enough Trev. I agree your vacsol is probably fine if it’s a 2016, so perhaps there’s other variables at play here. We know those Nissan engineers have made many little changes throughout the years that we aren’t fully aware of. Then again, there seems to be discrepancies between exact same year models so who knows. So hard to know what’s going on with the ECU related stuff.

I agree though, only way to know is to try various setups like @Bidja has done.
I was definitely keen to try the two needle setup, but to be perfectly honest I am sick to death of dealing with all things engine related. It isn’t my main interest, and I’m very content with this setup for now. I have much bigger plans for the rest of this year
 

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2016 CRD wagon
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I'm using the 2 needle and tillix setup at the moment and quite like it. It has lowered cruise boost back to around 14psi at cruise, a reduction from the 18 to 20 with just the single needle and tillix.

With all that said I'd really like to solve the issue with why my vacsol isn't as successful as others I've read about. There's nothing like a good challenge!

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

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@trev zd30

Maybe it's Digibooster time.
I am considering that mod eventually to try different combos.

I particularly would like opening the vanes on throttle cut to bleed EMP.
 
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