[bambill]

I have been playing around for a while now trying to make 200rwkw with my setup.
Its not the most preffered setup to get there though, and i'm just trying to do it with the current turbo for the hell of it.
It's purely been about making the 200kw number.


Its a 99 gu ute with close to 400k km on it and a factory turbo engine.
It has a united fuel injection 12mm pump and I'm running a 56trim 2871 with a .64a/r exhaust housing.
When I first put it together it had the standard .6a/r compressor cover and made 194rwkw @ 3080rpm and 675nm at around 2200rpm from memory on 26psi on a 265 tyre.
I then fitted 285 tyres a different intercooler and a different intake manifold and lost power. 183rwkw and only 600nm.
I have since changed the compressor cover to a .5a/r , changed air filter to a panel type(gen 111) and down sized the turbo to intercooler piping from 2.5" to 2".
I got it back on the dyno today and am fairly pleased with the results.
It made 193.2rwkw @ 2920rpm and 688nm @ 2200rpm.
Peak boost was 30psi but the way it gets there is really funny, it has 7.5psi @ 1600rpm and then hits 25psi @ 2080rpm, but doesn't hit 30psi untill 2320rpm. Not very good at all.
The driveabiltiy with this setup is not all that nice.
Sunday the plan is to put the .6a/r cover back the turbo. Since I last had it on there I have done a DIY type surge porting to it. Surge was one of the reason I changed it. Will be interesting to see how it goes.
I also have a .7a/r housing ordered (surge ported), just want to try it to see how it goes.
I'll back the boost back down to 28psi with these covers.

At the moment though I think I have found the limit as to what rwkw I can make.
I just can't get it to pull above 3000rpm on the dyno. I can get it to pull to the govener on the road but not on the dyno. If anyone has any ideas here I am all ears.
If I could get it to pull a little higher on the dyno I rekon it would make the extra 7kw I'm looking for.
I have a few other things I want to try, but will update this as I get them done.


Marty

 

[nastytroll]

I'm interested to see the results.

 

[BeNos]

on 31"s you would probably already be there. also are you sure your cooler piping is big enough. dont you have some massive thick cooler on your truck? mayby try the 2.5" piping again if you still have it floating around.
also have you tried a .86 rear housing. i found it to laggy on my 2860 with standard pump but might be alright if your chasing power up higher. the smaller housing could also be restricting you under load on the dyno?

 

[AUTO..]

I swear on our last forum trip to glasshouse I met a guy with a GU ute which was putting out something hectic like 270kw????? or 290???????????????????
Not sure who it was.... I could be wrong but it was hectic

 

[BeNos]

didnt have something stupid like a duramax or big block chev did it??

 

[G60 Rock Crawler]

I swear on our last forum trip to glasshouse I met a guy with a GU ute which was putting out something hectic like 270kw????? or 290???????????????????
Not sure who it was.... I could be wrong but it was hectic

Was it this one?, has Commodore motor and supercharged.

CRAZY PATROL DRIVER - YouTube

 

[bambill]

on 31"s you would probably already be there. also are you sure your cooler piping is big enough. dont you have some massive thick cooler on your truck? mayby try the 2.5" piping again if you still have it floating around.
also have you tried a .86 rear housing. i found it to laggy on my 2860 with standard pump but might be alright if your chasing power up higher. the smaller housing could also be restricting you under load on the dyno?

Yeh if I put 265 tyres back on I would proberly get there, but I don't have them anymore.
Cooler piping isn't the issue, it did the same thing with 3" 2.5" and is now doing it with 2".
Going to a smaller pipe has just help the boost response a little.
Cooler will be getting changed soon. The current 127mm thick one just heat soaks to much, not enough frontal area.
I haven't tried a bigger rear housing.
I have a few things to try with this one first. My current one is ported a fair bit, but when I get it off on the weekend I'll have a bit more of a go at it, I was running out of time when I last had it off to finish what I wanted to do, and the manifold could use a bit more time on it.
One off the things I am going to try with the exhaust housing is machining the outlet from the turbine wheel out a bit, maybe a mm for a start and see what it does.

 

[tye1986]

Cooler temps I found on my make next no difference. Cooler temps at 60deg made same power as cooler temps at 30. Just afr was alot better.

 

[bennoGU28]

Its a crying shame that Garrett dont make a .70-.74 hot side for the GT28/30s.

I think that the .64 rear would be choking it.


Out of interest, do you have a lift pump fitted?

 

[2jz929]

Fairly sure you can get an aftermarket 0.72 rear housing for the garrett.

Edit: That might only be the the 30 series?

 

[bennoGU28]

Correct, you can get this in a .72

Special Turbine Housing T25-EWG-44 : atpturbo.com

But it says this, "Only available in .72 A/R. .72 A/R is built to GT30 geometry so this A/R is comparable to one that is right in between a .63 and .82 A/R GT30R housing"

As .63 T3 is roughly equivalent to .86 T25 thats a bit to big.



I meant between .64 and .86 in a T25.

 

[AUTO..]

Was it this one?, has Commodore motor and supercharged.

CRAZY PATROL DRIVER - YouTube

No but that's one mental patrol

 

[simmoevo]

I know of a gu ute with 400kw and close to 2000nm. 4.8l

 

[BeNos]

Correct, you can get this in a .72

Special Turbine Housing T25-EWG-44 : atpturbo.com

But it says this, "Only available in .72 A/R. .72 A/R is built to GT30 geometry so this A/R is comparable to one that is right in between a .63 and .82 A/R GT30R housing"

As .63 T3 is roughly equivalent to .86 T25 thats a bit to big.



I meant between .64 and .86 in a T25.

northside im pretty sure have something around the .72 hotside but its t3 flanged off memory. but you need a couple of adapters to make it work and also unless he has changed it needed a wastegate plate as the housing is for external gate only. i looked into doing so a while ago. but for the current setup i had it wasnt worth the hassle.

 

[bambill]

Northside was just using a 5 bolt ford style housing, look through the ATP turbo site and you will find them. I would also go close to betting my left knacker that they are just using a .48 T3 housing.
From my way of thinking if I machine maybe 40-60 thou out of the turbine outlet it would increase the flow without the side affects of cropping the tubine wheel (reducing its diameter) and the response should remain almost the same.

Having said that though I don't think thats the problem.
I think its either a fuel issue, and yes I have a lift pump, or maybe something like valve springs maybe not coping with the drive pressures.
I've lost my book which had alot of my stuff written in it from air temps and exhaust manifold pressures etc. Drive pressure was up in the 3.?:1 area from memory so I will have to go and have another look at that sometime soon.

 

[tye1986]

Wats your afr like wen the power drops off?

 

[bambill]

Okay, I just went and checked drive pressures again and I am not sure what I done last time but I tried 2 different gauges this time and got 1.3:1.
Max pressure in the exhaust manifold I seen was 39psi at 30psi boost.
I am quite surprised by this as it is alot lower than I thought it would be.
So I think I can rule out chocking the exhaust at this stage.

Tye afr's lean right off.
I did have a discussion with Matt the other day (it was doing other weird **** at the time too like just shutting down) and he suggested a few things. One was wether I had a intake hose sucking closed. I went and put a couple of hose clamps around the the only rubber bend on the intake side and it seemed to fix it, but only on the road.
On the road it will pull really hard to about 33-3400rpm and then it starts to defuel I guess and hits the govener at 3600rpm.

 

[OldMav]

Marty, Many years ago i was stuffing about with crack pressures trying to up pump pressures with timing etc once i reached 1900psi settled pressures i got the same results as you are seeing, afr's went above 22, turbo would loose boost by a few pounds, couldn't get the motor to load up after 3300rpm on the dyno always felt like it ran out of fuel. The pump i was using was very experimental then with really strange pressures etc. Since then with more conventional 12mm pump settings i have found always to get very old fuel issues when using injector pop pressures above 110 bar 1600psi settled and 28psi boost also timing is extreamly hard to get right with these high crack pressures also springs do seem to break easy..
Just a thought here as you many have played with the injectors or someone has not knowing the issues. Also i have tried heavy springs as well from a volvo marine engine which has simular size injector springs. But the issue still happened due to different operating mean pump pressures..

 

[bambill]

Peter

I did break a couple of injector springs early on.
When I got them fixed I asked to have the pop pressures set at whatever it was that Matt recomended, I think it was 115 bar, could be wrong.
What pop pressure did you end up using Peter 110bar?
I am running a fair amount of timing at the minute (don't ask me how much though).
I have tried many different timing settings none of which have made any real difference to the top end. As you would know it is either really slugish when retarded or really rattly when you go a bit to far.
The only AFR I have from the last dyno session is from one of the last runs when the intercooler was really heat soaked. The intake temps (rear or manifold) were like 54degC before we even did the run.
Its starts at 15.6 and then is steadily leaning out to 18.2 at 2920rpm then it starts dropping boost (4psi) and the afr's lean out to 20.4 were we stop at 3160rpm because everything is just falling off.
That 2920rpm the power is still rising to there then it just loses the plot.
The point it drops off is always within 1-200rpm each and every run.

 

[OldMav]

Marty
Matt sets his injectors to 110 bar 1600 psi 115 is near 1700psi that is too much. Hence the timing is a bit strange you have to set the IP up with more overall pressure to work with that much pressure to get timing back where it makes a difference..I am not saying this is your only issue here from experience it will be a combination of all little things that is causing your issue. Hence my suggestion i recommend you start with the injectors as this causes timing issues or fuel timing issues. I usually set my injectors at about 1650psi after a bit of use they settle down to 1600psi 110 bar..you should be able to get timing back to just under .8mm to run nice low and top end. Playing with this stuff from experience this is a good compromise between low end and mid range power or response. I didn't do this research on the dyno i did this with timed set distance up a hill..i used the dyno just to check.