[Ethanissan]

Alright, the results are back, pretty happy with the torque I'm starting with, not so sure on the hp but what can you do 🤷‍♂️.
Making a maximum of 220nm at 2000rpm (I'm impressed with this)
And 72hp at 2800rpm.
AFR's start off around 16.5:1 (bit too low) and end at about 20:1
Boost comes on pretty late (no muffler), getting 5psi at 1700rpm and about 9.5 at 2100, with the stock turbo, mind you.

 

[geeyoutoo]

Alright, the results are back, pretty happy with the torque I'm starting with, not so sure on the hp but what can you do 🤷‍♂️.
Making a maximum of 220nm at 2000rpm (I'm impressed with this)
And 72hp at 2800rpm.
AFR's start off around 16.5:1 (bit too low) and end at about 20:1
Boost comes on pretty late (no muffler), getting 5psi at 1700rpm and about 9.5 at 2100, with the stock turbo, mind you.

View attachment 540656
View attachment 540657

Cool, now you have a baseline and if you keep using the same dyno and operator you have something to judge against as I indicated in my earlier post. I am no stranger to dynos, having built, developed and driven many racecars, I've been on a dyno or two over those years and know only to well the difference between dynos and operators, a constant tells a better story than switching around.

 

[Ethanissan]

Cool, now you have a baseline and if you keep using the same dyno and operator you have something to judge against as I indicated in my earlier post. I am no stranger to dynos, having built, developed and driven many racecars, I've been on a dyno or two over those years and know only to well the difference between dynos and operators, a constant tells a better story than switching around.

I wonder if that explains the difference between my SD and OutbackMK's SD, producing heaps more power and torque? Although in saying that I'm unsure of what mods he's done to his, apart from 10psi of boost and not enough fuel apparently.

Dyno results from SD33T

Well after a lot of work the troll went on the dyno today. Before taking it for the test I went over a few things first to avoid potential problems. 1) Fitted a new thermostat, engine always seemed to be a bit cool. 2) Replaced fuel filter and cleaned banjo filter. 3) Checked air cleaner element...

www.patrol4x4.com

 

[Ethanissan]

So I’m going to take a wild guess here and say that when you pull out a bottom kingpin bolt water isn’t meant to come out?

Yeah… I guess that’s what I get for going through deep water in a 37 year old truck.

Vid of the deepest puddle I went through on Moreton for interest (yes, I went and tested them all to make sure they were fresh water):

MK Patrol goes through water

May have been a bit too deep for comfort, and got water in at least the kingpins, if not the diff.

youtube.com

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[rgren2]

It’s a little know fact that there are a few secret hiding places built into patrols for water storage, they are there to help travellers when they run out of water. Over years you discovered most of them. 😉

 

[Ethanissan]

In other news, I installed a new RTC steering dampener, and also put castor wedges between the leafs and axles last night since I did the extended shackles…

And holy mother of christ the death wobbles on my test drive.

It’s always had a shimmy at around 70-80, but this was something from an entirely different planet. I’ve seen it described perfectly in another thread before, it feels like the car is going to violently rip itself apart and doesn’t stop until you come to an almost complete stop. I see why they’re called death wobbles now, if you weren’t expecting it or didn’t know how to control the vehicle once they started, you’d be very likely to be in a bad accident. Luckily my instinct was to brake and pull off the road into the grass on the side, so I’m all good, but I was pretty shook (literally and figuratively) after that.
I have never experienced something like that before, and it was the scariest moment I’ve ever had driving a car.

sigh

Anyway, now time to go about looking for the cause.
Obviously the first thing to try is the castor wedges, since it never happened before I put them in (thick side to the front, to tilt the pinion down, same as castor bushes or drop boxes in a coil patrol), but in my head that doesn’t make much sense, since castor correction doesn’t usually result in death wobbles, and almost always helps reduce road shimmys by putting the steering geometry back into alignment. So I’m going to leave them for now.
Next suspect would be steering dampener, since that was the other thing I changed recently. However this unit is a tough dog rtc danpener, which is recommended for most leaf sprung vehicles, and before I installed it I noted it had better dampening than my old factory one, so it shouldn’t be the cause.
Next I just checked the kingpin bearing, as hinted in my post before, as it was loose. I took a shim out and put it back in, now it’s got preload again and the wheel doesn’t have slop, but just went for a test drive and got bad wobbles after hitting a bump going around a corner at 50, so no go.
I checked the front tyre pressures, both within half a pound of each other, so not unequal pressure.
Next I’ll be putting different tyres on to see if it’s a balancing issue, but it shouldn’t be because it’s come out of nowhere (tyres still have wheel weights attached), but I’ll try anyway.
U-bolts are tight, did them up last night when I did the castor wedges.
Shackle bolts are torqued to spec.
Now I’m a bit lost


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[geeyoutoo]

In other news, I installed a new RTC steering dampener, and also put castor wedges between the leafs and axles last night since I did the extended shackles…

And holy mother of christ the death wobbles on my test drive.

It’s always had a shimmy at around 70-80, but this was something from an entirely different planet. I’ve seen it described perfectly in another thread before, it feels like the car is going to violently rip itself apart and doesn’t stop until you come to an almost complete stop. I see why they’re called death wobbles now, if you weren’t expecting it or didn’t know how to control the vehicle once they started, you’d be very likely to be in a bad accident. Luckily my instinct was to brake and pull off the road into the grass on the side, so I’m all good, but I was pretty shook (literally and figuratively) after that.
I have never experienced something like that before, and it was the scariest moment I’ve ever had driving a car.

sigh

Anyway, now time to go about looking for the cause.
Obviously the first thing to try is the castor wedges, since it never happened before I put them in (thick side to the front, to tilt the pinion down, same as castor bushes or drop boxes in a coil patrol), but in my head that doesn’t make much sense, since castor correction doesn’t usually result in death wobbles, and almost always helps reduce road shimmys by putting the steering geometry back into alignment. So I’m going to leave them for now.
Next suspect would be steering dampener, since that was the other thing I changed recently. However this unit is a tough dog rtc danpener, which is recommended for most leaf sprung vehicles, and before I installed it I noted it had better dampening than my old factory one, so it shouldn’t be the cause.
Next I just checked the kingpin bearing, as hinted in my post before, as it was loose. I took a shim out and put it back in, now it’s got preload again and the wheel doesn’t have slop, but just went for a test drive and got bad wobbles after hitting a bump going around a corner at 50, so no go.
I checked the front tyre pressures, both within half a pound of each other, so not unequal pressure.
Next I’ll be putting different tyres on to see if it’s a balancing issue, but it shouldn’t be because it’s come out of nowhere (tyres still have wheel weights attached), but I’ll try anyway.
U-bolts are tight, did them up last night when I did the castor wedges.
Shackle bolts are torqued to spec.
Now I’m a bit lost


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Steering dampers are known to mask a problem, never heard of them actually cause one. Take out the wedges and do another drive to test effect, one thing at a time.

 

[Ethanissan]

Steering dampers are known to mask a problem, never heard of them actually cause one. Take out the wedges and do another drive to test effect, one thing at a time.

Yep I’m planning on doing the wedges now, and yes, it shouldn’t be the dampener, like you say they’re known to mask or “Band-Aid” it, not fix it.

Interestingly when I first got it, on standard shackles and not lifted, the castor plates were installed the wrong way round, tilting the steering axis forward from centre like you’d get with a coil lift and no correction, so I took them out. I wonder why that was?


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[Ethanissan]

So I might’ve found something that could help remove some movement from the front, apparently the superior shackles came with new metal bushes that I didn’t realise what they were. So while we’ve just been heating and hammering away at the shackle mount on the chassis to get the old metal bush out, what I thought was just a paint crack turned out to be the dreaded MQ shackle mount cracked chassis.
Trying to fix one problem, find another, and so on.

Dad’s going to attempt to fix it with our arc welder, because we don’t have anything better, so at least it’ll be a temporary fix until it can be welded and braced properly

Edit: if only I could get beautiful looking blur like that on real photography, looks like it was taken by a professional

 

[rgren2]

Overhead welds, new skills. 👍
Oh, and hot bits dropping on you.

 

[Ethanissan]

Overhead welds, new skills.
Oh, and hot bits dropping on you.

I won’t be the one welding it, I’ve never welded anything before so probably not the best idea for my first weld to be on my chassis upside down, on a part that holds a major part of my car together…

But yes, dad agreed with me that it’d be easier if we could turn the car upside down


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[Ethanissan]

Passenger shackle chassis mount is now fixed. It’s not the prettiest job on the upside-down part, but what can I say, I only watched dad use the arc welder. The upright bits look beaut though. Should hold much better until I inevitably learn how to weld one day and decide to cut the mounts off to relocate them backwards.
Driver side hasn’t cracked yet so we’ll wait to see if it does before doing anything yet, or maybe we’ll just do it tomorrow out of sheer “may as well while the bullbar is off”.
Dad doesn’t really want me to show the underside weld because it’s not the best looking, but it’s got good penetration to both surfaces and is much better than just having a big crack there. Good weld penetration is better than a good looking, but shallow weld any day.
Anyway, photos:

Also, when I realised Superior included new bushings obviously I wanted to replace the old ones. Why oh why did I decide that was a good idea without any good equipment, as in no bushing removing tool, and no oxy torch to heat up the shackle mount it’s pressed into.
So we were working with a big hammer, a slightly modified big hole punch, and the leftover heat from welding the mount back to the chassis properly.
Basically, the superior bushes start out flat and are bent into a circle (because they’re slotted for the grease on the inside), which means they have a seam.
When working with a hole punch that has a slight conical shape, that seam tears and the bush starts to open up.
So we were stuck with a bushing 2/3 of the way into it’s housing, but now tearing apart at the end, and we didn’t want to try to get it out and the old one back in again. So what we did was put the old one in the empty side of the housing and hammer it in until it touched the new one, and then cut the excess off each. So I’ve got a 2/3 slotted 1/3 smooth 2-piece bushing now, we’ll see how that goes. I’ll have to see if I can buy just the bushes from superior by themselves, and then get the proper tools to install them. Until then, this’ll do.
Here you can see where the old bush meets the new one in the middle:

 

[james008]

Death wobbles and cracked shackle mounts, pretty standard for MQ/MK lol.

The wobbles are a bit of fun when you're not expecting them, and can be a bit of a pain to track down. I'd usually say start with the last thing you touched, but I can't imagine a steering damper exaggerating the wobbles.... while you have your springs dropped, have a good look at the other spring bushes. Pretty important that they are okay obviously as they locate the entire front end.
Then just work through steering, front knuckles and hubs etc etc...

Also with the rtc damper, make sure the spring is adjusted correctly. I had a steering pull for longer than I am willing to admit because I never checked it...

 

[Ethanissan]

So, I took out the castor wedges last night and took it for a drive this morning, and holy moly, no DEATH wobbles, emphasis on the death. There's still a wobble there, but it's back to being around 70 like it used to be, and nowhere near as extreme as what I experienced over the last couple drives with the wedges installed. It doesn't make sense in my head that correcting the castor would create such an issue, but apparently I either did something wrong or ol' wobbly over here just doesn't like me.

Something's happened since it tried to murder itself though, when it got proper death wobbles, it developed a bad knock that was in time with the wobbles in the front suspension, the same one you hear when you steer lock to lock, but repeatedly and very fast and loud. I assumed it was just because it wobbled so badly, as I'd never heard it before, but even now that the wobbles have calmed down a bit, the knock has remained when it shimmys. It can also be heard when I grab the bullbar and heavily rock the car side to side, loading the suspension on way, then another, and so on.

(referring to the front suspension) I'm suspicious of the solid spring hangers on the rear of the front springs, as any MK owner will notice there's a fair gap between the spring bush and the side of the hanger, meaning there's a bit of opportunity for side-to-side movement.
Dunno though.
Leaf sprung guru's got any ideas?

 

[Ethanissan]

I’ve also since got the tyres balanced and rotated and it’s much nicer to drive now, but I think something somewhere in the front suspension has stretched or broken. Sometimes when I go over a bump it’ll have a tiny little shake which goes away almost straight away.

Anyway, on another note, I’m going to pull apart my 4.375 front axle today and install this

and hopefully prepare it to go into the patrol. I won’t be swapping it out yet as I need the car for the next couple days, and I need to put some good parts off the 4.1 on, such as braided brake lines, manual hubs and axles to match, see which has better kingpin races, etc. the only thing that has to change is the diff housing itself, since it’s got the 4.3 diff and pinion already set correctly, everything else I could in theory use off the 4.1.

Remember, the MQ patrol C200 front diff is a Salisbury type, so the carrier is part of the housing, and it has a front inspection cover that has to be taken off to get the diff out.


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[Ethanissan]

The old, small bolts in the H260, to suit the MK carrier, and the new 10mm bolts to suit the GU carrier:

Build thread update incoming


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[Foo]

Just a tad different.

Foo

 

[Ethanissan]

Just a tad different.

Foo

Just a tad


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[Ethanissan]

Aaand build thread update delayed because of this…

H260 MK vs GU problems

I swear every time I take out a diff something goes wrong. Anyway, as I'm currently putting a GU H260 carrier into my MK housing to get a 4.375 ratio, I've come across a problem that could end up being quite big, or could be an easy fix (probably not). In the MK diff, the way the wheel bearings...

www.patrol4x4.com

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[rgren2]

Never trust a simple job. They always get complicated.