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Are you using Water Methanol Injection?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 62.5%
  • Are you interested in using WM Injection?

    Votes: 3 37.5%
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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Quite a few threads on this over the years but thought it might be worth bringing the subject up to date for anyone interested and getting others to contribute their detail so members can try different methods to suit their vehicle.

Mine is written up in my build thread but spread over the thread due to changing as time went on. Started out with a Devils Own system after talking to it's creator Bilal over several months, he had experience with the ZD30DI engine, worked OK but then decided on my first go at Pre Turbo and accidentally flooded the turbo. Went with a CoolingMist controller and safety module (which blew itself up trying to keep up with multiple injection points and timings) and keeping the original DO pump which is adjustable up to 250psi, as it turns out all pumps of this type came out of the same factory in Mexico with just different brand names on them, all pumps were fine, mine is still going after all these years, later ones of the type went to 300psi. I went to a Hobbs switch as a safety, meaning nothing would work until a preset boost pressure was reached, later replacing the Hobbs with a World Magnetics PSF 103 adjustable switch from CoolingMist (I think) much smaller and works just as well as a safety, it is set to 10psi but may drop that to 8psi. The fitting of the Eclipse Turbo meant I had to make a few changes, I'm now finalising those changes.

So my system currently stands at:
  • CoolingMist CM GS Controller. Mounted down by my knee on RH side.
  • LED x3 that indicate low tank level (red) Firing point via CM GS (green) and firing point from solenoid (also green).
  • Devils Own 250psi pump. Mounted beside draws in the rear, just under the small tank I built, this tank dictates the size of the nozzles I use, doing a lot of trips I I try to make a tank last the same amount of K's as my main fuel tank, keep looking at expanding tank size but room is at a premium and don't wish to have an under floor tank, want to keep it all internal with 'gravity' feed to pump.
  • Snow Nozzle. Pre Turbo mounted 4mm away from CompWheel mounting thread.
  • Non Return Valve. The NRV is placed just prior to the T that feeds both the solenoid and TB nozzle, takes 17psi to break seat.
  • CoolingMist Solenoid Valve. This controls pre trubo injection and is mounted as close as possible to injection point, cannot open until a preset boost is reached on the next item.
  • World Magnetics Adjustable Pressure Switch. Safety unit controlled by next item, still set at 10psi but may drop that to 8psi.
  • JayCar Adjustable Voltage Regulator. This unit is wired into the TPS and can be adjusted so that a specific voltage/percentage reached by the TPS will activate power to the above, currently set at 30% TPS but again may drop this to around 28%, The vehicle cruises on flat road between 18 and 22% @ 14-16psi, I can open my needle valve a tad if I wish this to be a little lower on trips, tank size is what controls how much I inject and when.
  • CoolingMist Nozzles. One in the throttle body and another in the IC outlet tube (change between these two).
  • Braided Hoses. Only braided under bonnet due to heat, rest back to pump is 1/4" nylon hose.

Actually quite a simple system but works very effectively.

CM GS, out of direct line of site, hate ever changing digital readouts, have since placed a piece of black tape over the last number to minimise flashing.
517017


JayCar adjustable voltage reg showing pot where TPS output is adjusted.
517018


World Magnetics switch is much more compact than the Hobbs, not quite as good hysteresis wise but not an issue for this setup.
517016


Solenoid is mounted on head close to pre turbo injection point.
517019


Nozzle in throttle body
517021


Tank and pump
517020


Pre Turbo arrangement on Eclipse, but had very similar on the original GT2052.
517033


On turbo
517036


Nozzle to Compwheel shaft arrangement taken on my endoscope
517034
 

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nissan
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I have just set up water meth, I am still in the testing phase regarding usage/range.
I have a Devilsown 300psi pump, solenoid and #3 nozzle.
I am using a Snow Performance controller which I have mounted in a trim I made from aluminium and sits in front of the shifter where the cig lighter used to be.
It is set to start at 14psi and full juice at 22psi.
I made a stainless steel tank which holds 27L, I could squeeze another 4 or 5L in if I park uphill.
It has 6L remaining when the low fluid light flashes. The pump is mounted to the tank as well.
I welded a fitting in the intercooler pipe just before the intake manifold.
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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
im glad this come up. hopefully cuts the confusion.
looking forward to people posting their setups for me to replicate haha. td42 peoples post away
I put this out of ZD section for that reason but in reality the same systems work on any vehicle really, just different ways of approaching and managing.
I'm waiting for @Kiwi_dingo to write his up.
 

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GQ Dual Cab. TD42Ti with fruit.
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im glad this come up. hopefully cuts the confusion.
looking forward to people posting their setups for me to replicate haha. td42 peoples post away
Just remember the Borg Warner does not like the normal pre-turbo 90 degree mount 150mm or so in front of the compressor wheel. You will get pitting. Perhaps mounted close right in front like Ross has done may work, but no-one has tested one yet that I know of. I gave the pre-turbo injector away for this reason.
 

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I put this out of ZD section for that reason but in reality the same systems work on any vehicle really, just different ways of approaching and managing.
I'm waiting for @Kiwi_dingo to write his up.
Yes, I had seen this thread but thought I'd keep out of it since my system isn't currently in a patrol. But you're right, any system or method of injection carries over to any vehicle/engine combination even petrol engines but they mainly use W/M injection for higher octane and detonation control compared to our more common goal of lowering EGT and the bonus of extra compressor efficiency if doing pre-turbo.

Besides I thought the main W/M injection thread in this general patrol forum covered it very well already. Water/Methanol Injection But also yes, unless you take the time to read it all the really important and interesting information is scattered all over the place but not that hard to find if people are wanting to research and learn.
 

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Just remember the Borg Warner does not like the normal pre-turbo 90 degree mount 150mm or so in front of the compressor wheel. You will get pitting.
Interesting, is that what happened to yours when doing pre-turbo with this injection method?

I had been running a very similar comp wheel to what's in the EFR and never found any signs of damage. I had two nozzles at 90 degrees about 200-250mm in front of the comp wheel and would empty my 50L tank in less than half an hour of spirited driving which gives an idea of how much I was injecting.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As said in first post, that was why I started this thread, to bring the subject up to date and more relevant to todays usage/methods.
 

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Thanks for reminding me of meth injection kit I’ve got squirrelled away in a closet and how slack I’ve been in getting it fitted up. Might need to look into it while changing over the tray.

I’ve got a stainless water tank much like Nigel’s I’d like to retrofit. I’ve just been scratching my head on the best way to go about fitting it due to weight (25-35kg) with water and abuse in might receive day to day, touring and off-road.

Also does anyone know how long methanol keeps for as I’ve currently got about 40ltr in two or 3 jerry cans in he garage waiting to go.
 

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nissan
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Just remember the Borg Warner does not like the normal pre-turbo 90 degree mount 150mm or so in front of the compressor wheel.
I thought that these days most people were running the nozzle right up close to the compressor wheel nut rather than 100 to 150mm away like they used to.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I thought that these days most people were running the nozzle right up close to the compressor wheel nut rather than 100 to 150mm away like they used to.
I know from my own experience that 100-200mm away from the comp wheel is a recipe for disaster having done that on my GT2052 and worn the tips off the wheel, I later changed my entire setup and had the nozzle 10mm from the same compwheel and had that for thousands of K with no further damage, my current setup on the new Eclipse is 4mm away, sure the Eclipse compwheel is a tougher wheel but the old GT2052 withstood 10mm easily.
 

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Interesting, is that what happened to yours when doing pre-turbo with this injection method?

I had been running a very similar comp wheel to what's in the EFR and never found any signs of damage. I had two nozzles at 90 degrees about 200-250mm in front of the comp wheel and would empty my 50L tank in less than half an hour of spirited driving which gives an idea of how much I was injecting.
Yep, started to get signs of pitting. Now you could argue that numerous issues could be the cause, rather than just the injector position, and I agree. Any number of things could have happened, but the system was running well long before the EFR was fitted. So I have no other suspects. And the EFR does not provide a convenient spot for a mount in front of the wheel. @OldMav came up with a hand made solution, but that is out of my skill set. And to be perfectly honest, the benefits do not outweigh the risks for me. So my pre-turbo injector is now a second stage manifold injector.
 

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Yes I agree, it definitely has risks doing pre-turbo but of all the injection spots I tried it was the only one that I could actually feel kick in with my buttometer while driving. The other spots didn't do anything for me other than drop EGT but I'm also only doing straight water so my results may differ to others with meth.

I did find in my testing that the location of the pre-turbo injection solenoid gave a big differences in how much it dripped out the nozzle after activation. I thought mounting the solenoid 3-400mm away from the nozzle would be ok but it wasn't and it dripped more than I liked causing water to start pooling in the intake elbow. I reconfigured my setup to have the nozzle directly attached to the solenoid which made a massive difference and I couldn't get any drips to occur. I also find out in nearly a disastrous way that activating too much water at too low of a boost level can actually stall the comp wheel and stop it spinning. I think it was around 4psi when it happened and it stopped making anymore boost and water was pooling inside the comp housing and I could hear it struggling to spin splashing water around.
 

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Nissan patrol GU
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I’m running a very basic setup.A coolingmist progressive controller and check valve set At 8psi-15psi with a devilown 3gallon nozzle at the throttle body . Nothing really happens till about 10psi as system primes and check valve opens (all out after 15psi). My tank is 7 gallon (26-27 litres) . The 4gallon nozzle gives me great performance and tank range with straight water and about 10 % methanol , the 3 gallon is good for cleaning purposes but minimal hit in power. Once check valve is replaced with coolingmist solenoid the 5gallon and 7 gallon will be tested. Future plans will include second nozzle but more than happy with current set up.
 

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I only use water too, as my water tank also supplies drinking water. And unlike most people, I have set my system up to provide fuel economy rather than max power output. So I have a nozzle operating at low psi so that it operates at low volume on highway runs. Second nozzle is controlled to only operate above 15psi, at which point duty cycle is quite high, so it runs at close to capacity when you are accelerating.
 

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I only use water too, as my water tank also supplies drinking water.
Same here, I just couldn't justify fitting another tank to have meth separate to my drinking water. I initially had always planned to install one and run meth but after seeing the result I get from straight water I don't really see to need apart from just my curiosity of trying it.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I store drinking water separately, I don't use meth to add Hp these days, I use 10% max to keep my 'tank' water crisp, when away on trips I'll often add a little white vinegar to the water I find along the way to do the same.
 

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@geeyoutoo Ross are we doing tech questions in this thread or do you want to keep it to set up details.
Does the low fluid sensor in the Coolingmist set up just trigger continuity across the 2 wires. I've just scored a used CMGS and want to bench test all the features before I go further and don't have the float switch yet.

I'm also going to have a couple of wiring questions when I sort it a bit more as they have been butchered a bit and I'm not completely sure on all of them matching the diagram I have.
 

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I think so, the two wires are triggered by a simple open/closed switch.
Before you go too far, it might be useful to power it up to see what version you have. When switched on it will flash the version on the display, and they have changed a few things along the way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
@geeyoutoo Ross are we doing tech questions in this thread or do you want to keep it to set up details.
Does the low fluid sensor in the Coolingmist set up just trigger continuity across the 2 wires. I've just scored a used CMGS and want to bench test all the features before I go further and don't have the float switch yet.

I'm also going to have a couple of wiring questions when I sort it a bit more as they have been butchered a bit and I'm not completely sure on all of them matching the diagram I have.
Yes questions are fine, the idea of the thread was to see what is applicable with today, not years ago, if I can answer I will. My low level is made simply through an earth contact in the float switch.
 
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