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Are you using Water Methanol Injection?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 62.5%
  • Are you interested in using WM Injection?

    Votes: 3 37.5%
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Yes questions are fine, the idea of the thread was to see what is applicable with today, not years ago, if I can answer I will. My low level is made simply through an earth contact in the float switch.
Thanks Ross, I'm just trying to get my head around the wiring diagram as the wiring in the unit has been butchered somewhat. Most wires have been cut and rejoined and none have evidence of fuses as noted in the instructions also the orange power wire is not orange but but red and not that heavy and doesn't seem touched so I want to be able to bench test it of sorts before I go to the trouble of starting to set the system up. It does however power up with power on what must be the right wires. The 12 gauge wire to the pump has been cut and lengthened with some very bad soldering so that needs fixing too. I'm thinking I might resolder some fresh wires into the circuit board instead of butchering more.

So:

  1. If I don't touch the float wires then there should be no warning indication on that failsafe?
  2. I believe the pump is PWM controlled on the negative so instead of trying to resolder a heavy gauge wire into the PCB with shaky hands I should be able to go a lighter (easier) gauge and power the pump through a relay with the power trigger from the PCB. Earth wiring at least is still sound.
Might seem like some stuffing round but even if the gauge/controller doesn't work properly then I can't really go wrong at $50 for the CMGS, flow meter and pump.馃コ馃コ

Still need a nozzle or 2 and maybe a solenoid if I end up going pre turbo. For simplicity of set up and till I get my head around it fully I might just run the single pre manifold nozzle first. Looking at your set up @geeyoutoo if I set the nozzle up on the underside of the outlet pipe of the intercooler and my tank and pump are definitely lower being under the tray then there is no need for a solenoid on that line.
 

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Nissan patrol GU
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My switch stopped working after a couple of months , it would flicker when water movement was low in tank(water being constantly going side to side in tank )then the float bit broke. Never replaced it as I just rely on fault light from controller when really low on water
 

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My switch stopped working after a couple of months , it would flicker when water movement was low in tank(water being constantly going side to side in tank )then the float bit broke. Never replaced it as I just rely on fault light from controller when really low on water
If your float switch in the tank broke then how are you getting a low water signal to trigger the fault condition.
 

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Emailed coolingmist about this when I first had issues with switch, he stated that it would activate the fault light even with out a failsafe control box . Can鈥檛 remember details but from memory it had something to do with pump voltage to duty cycle% .As the duty cycle increases in 10% intervals so does pump voltage to increase pump pressure. His explanation was pump can鈥檛 keep up with duty cycle it would trigger a fault code FIE( fault input error) for controller version 411 , low fluid or fault light has been trigged. Coolingmist were very bad at returning emails and answering questions . Getting information from them became hard work, after a while a gave up dealing with them and chose to stay with a very basis system
,
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
@Zd30 Steven I discovered your communication issues as well, From memory the owners name is David, I had direct contact with him like I did with Bilal from DO, Billal answered every question put to him, David was the opposite with just dribs and drabs, like you I gave up looking fora cure and installed my own safety devices. Good product, lousy communication skills.
For a while I was using water only and found after some time my level LED flashingon and off, eventually I removed it for inspection and found a 'growth' of some kind in the contact area, cleaned that and all back to square one, this is one of the reasons I use Meth or Vinegar as a cleansing agent in the 'tank' water I use.
 

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Coolingmist communications and customer service are well below par compared to devils own. From memory I did have my water /meth system not long after you did yours @geeyoutoo . The only reason I chose coolingmist over devils own was the boost switch set up as it was very quick easy to install and the ability to add another nozzle down road.My priority was for cleaning purposes.If I had my time again I would have gone with a devil own pump, Coolingmist progressive controller (411+) With throttle body nozzle 5and 4 Pre Turbo (solenoid for pre turbo) and check valve or NRV for throttle body. TPS set up for pre turbo is also a good option. Tank size is almost around 5-7 gallon range depending on location also,range your after on interstate trips. I鈥檝e been using vinegar (white) also, found it to be great on keeping the lines [email protected] If you had your time over what would you change in your current set up??
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Only thing I would change is find a way to fit a bigger tank, apart from that my system suits me and works very well. I'm well past the cleaning stage which was the initial reason I went WM after seeing what was in the inlet manifold when I stripped and cleaned the throttle body, but, I'm toying with the dea of removing other injection points and going bigger on pre turbo.
 

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location and size of tank is very important , I spent considerable time regarding tank location and quantity of water. I had to sacrifice my third row seats and not able to have a draws in the back, I ended up making my own floor in order not to drill holes ,I just used all existing holes from factory. Don鈥檛 like drilling holes in good cars /trucks .. Good to hear you are happy with your setup, there is no wrong or right setup just what suits each individual application and purpose.(y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Recently did a bit of cleanup work on my WM system. in the early days I had simple 1/4' nylon tube I had bought from Bilal at Devils Own with kit bits, had no issues other than leaks at the quick fit couplings, this was basically my fault as I have this problem with constantly fiddling so I'd unlock a connection to check something and next thing I'd have a leak, so, it is still nylon from the tank to it's arrival into the engine bay, from there I went to AN4 fittings and braided lines, cool, no more leaks and I can play all I like.

But,,,,,,,,,,,,, while removing the turbo inlet, I undid all the lines and found that where I had used black anodised AN4 fittings there was no issue, but where I had used silver anodised fittings I was experiencing corrosion which was creating potential nozzle blocking crap, I don't use filters at the nozzles because there isn't enough room to fit them inside the inlet tube so I have a filter and a non return valve just before the T to the two nozzles. I have 5 x silver AN4 1/8"NPT straight fittings where components join, have just ordered 5 in black to replace them.

Has anyone else experienced something like this??????
518649


On another note, I was looking at going up a nozzle size with my pre turbo and decided to drill out a small snow nozzle I was never going to use again, unfortunately the damned drill broke so the inlet went back on as was after an inspection and clean.
Yesterday I did some more playing and managed to re sharpen the very fine drill under a microscope and finish drilling the nozzle, success, rigged the nozzle to the spare inlet I built recently (written up in my build thread) connected to tap and tested flow rate at the 550kpa mains water pressure I have, result was 200ml a minute at 550kpa, seeing as my pump puts out around 1400kpa that flowrate will be a bit higher so may need to rethink it's use :rolleyes:.
Test spray pattern after drilling out nozzle to 0.7mm
518651


And yet on another note, I'm still waiting for @Kiwi_dingo to write up his system so I can learn a bit more.
 

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And yet on another note, I'm still waiting for @Kiwi_dingo to write up his system so I can learn a bit more.
Hmmm well it's still a work in progress that I'm not happy with. I keep blowing the ass out of my water pressure switches even though my new one was rated to 6000psi. I'm thinking maybe it doesn't like the pulses of pressure the pump produces or maybe I need to spend more than 60 bucks on a decent switch. I've actually stop playing with it lately as I'm having too much fun pretending to be a turbo building trying some ideas of mine out. I'm really finding myself wanting a lath now so I can machine parts myself to try further ideas.

Yesterday I did some more playing and managed to re sharpen the very fine drill under a microscope and finish drilling the nozzle, success, rigged the nozzle to the spare inlet I built recently (written up in my build thread) connected to tap and tested flow rate at the 550kpa mains water pressure I have, result was 200ml a minute at 550kpa, seeing as my pump puts out around 1400kpa that flowrate will be a bit higher so may need to rethink it's use :rolleyes:.
Just get a bigger tank, problem solved :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·

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Recently did a bit of cleanup work on my WM system. in the early days I had simple 1/4' nylon tube I had bought from Bilal at Devils Own with kit bits, had no issues other than leaks at the quick fit couplings, this was basically my fault as I have this problem with constantly fiddling so I'd unlock a connection to check something and next thing I'd have a leak, so, it is still nylon from the tank to it's arrival into the engine bay, from there I went to AN4 fittings and braided lines, cool, no more leaks and I can play all I like.

But,,,,,,,,,,,,, while removing the turbo inlet, I undid all the lines and found that where I had used black anodised AN4 fittings there was no issue, but where I had used silver anodised fittings I was experiencing corrosion which was creating potential nozzle blocking crap, I don't use filters at the nozzles because there isn't enough room to fit them inside the inlet tube so I have a filter and a non return valve just before the T to the two nozzles. I have 5 x silver AN4 1/8"NPT straight fittings where components join, have just ordered 5 in black to replace them.

Has anyone else experienced something like this??????
View attachment 518649

On another note, I was looking at going up a nozzle size with my pre turbo and decided to drill out a small snow nozzle I was never going to use again, unfortunately the damned drill broke so the inlet went back on as was after an inspection and clean.
Yesterday I did some more playing and managed to re sharpen the very fine drill under a microscope and finish drilling the nozzle, success, rigged the nozzle to the spare inlet I built recently (written up in my build thread) connected to tap and tested flow rate at the 550kpa mains water pressure I have, result was 200ml a minute at 550kpa, seeing as my pump puts out around 1400kpa that flowrate will be a bit higher so may need to rethink it's use :rolleyes:.
Test spray pattern after drilling out nozzle to 0.7mm
View attachment 518651

And yet on another note, I'm still waiting for @Kiwi_dingo to write up his system so I can learn a bit more.
How is that nozzle held in, any photos please?
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·

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In my build thread HERE and also the following post as there were more than 10 pics.
Thanks for that, interesting post, I also had problems with leaks so I went to pertek to have a chat with them about what I could.
I ended up using truck air brake line and fittings and have not had a leak since, I haven鈥檛 had my water meth hooked up for a year now as I have been running the new motor in but I鈥檓 about to take it off the road and do some long overdue tidy ups and repairs starting with the radiator support panel and I will hook it back up.
 
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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Did another Covid 19 restriction ease drive with the new turbo inlet with larger Snow #3 nozzle I ordered, I was a bit apprehensive about using the nozzle I drilled out, the Snow #3 delivers around 300ml/min at 200psi (considerably more than the Snow estimate was at 175ml/min, but we don't know what pressure they use for their tests, unlike CM which is 100psi).

Trip was around 300k, very pleased with outcome and even though this nozzle delivers way more than the previous Snow #2 my WM usage has not gone up significantly due to changes in how I manage it, recent L/100k calcs have been 0.8, meaning my water tank will still last out my main and most of sub, so may not need to fit a bigger tank.

With pre turbo coming on at 28%TPS when boost is above 12psi you can feel the kick in, the throttle body nozzle is now set to come in at 17psi, all out by 19psi, so depending on what the 'load' circumstances are sometimes the pre turbo comes on first, ie, when taking off from lights, or the CM controller switches the TB array on first when boost hits 17psi, ie long slow climb in cruise. Still only using 10% Meth to maintain water, might whack it up to 50% one day and see what happens ;), haven't done that for years due to Meth costs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Who is Still Using WM Injection?
A lot has changed since the last post here. I am in the process of upgrading my system based on discussion with OldMav on recently acquired info and my own experimentation based on those conversations, writing it up in my build thread as we go. The written documentation is non verifiable unless you have a lot of money to buy proprietary documentation, but from the snippets being picked up and our own testing it is showing good results. Pre turbo is no longer the ultimate go to (have removed mine), injection at IC inlet and installing the nozzle so that the wall of the end tank gets a good coating of water and then it is carried down the flutes cooling the IC which in turn cools the air (not vise versa). The second part is injecting into the inlet manifold working on the same principle as above, cooling manifold which in turn cools air, first one done, working on second. Completing the first stage certainly backs up the principle as a forward step.

Going to add a poll to see who is still using WM as there has not been much conversation about it for quite a while. It is also getting harder and more expensive to buy Methanol so just straight water or a very lean mix (I use 10% and filtered tank water) is a good option these days. Just found a reasonable supplier up here and bought 2 x 20L drums, $120.

Look forward to replies and feedback.
 

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Hi Ross,

I have been reading your build thread with interest regarding injecting into the IC.

I am really surprised that this is better than pre-turbo but it does make sense cooling the intercooler and manifold.

I took my tank out when i put in rear draws and have not had the w/m running since then.

Still have the tube, solenoid, pressure switch and nozzle installed, just need to work out where to put a water tank and the pump.

I could quickly set up a nozzle into the intercooler, which should give a good result.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Hi Ross,

I have been reading your build thread with interest regarding injecting into the IC.

I am really surprised that this is better than pre-turbo but it does make sense cooling the intercooler and manifold.

I took my tank out when i put in rear draws and have not had the w/m running since then.

Still have the tube, solenoid, pressure switch and nozzle installed, just need to work out where to put a water tank and the pump.

I could quickly set up a nozzle into the intercooler, which should give a good result.
Yes, surprised me as well, the tech pre turbo is based on has been around for quite a while. most suppliers say don't do it, but that is because of the risk of damage to turbo and yes it does happen, mine worked well though. The latest research shows a completely different set of rules for WM injection, I'm told of a drag Honda that recently underwent this tech replacing pre turbo (pre IC and inlet manifold with 2 nozzles due to split porting like our ZD30's) and knocked 1/2 second off 1/4 mile times taking it into 8's, which supports my experience between pre turbo and pre IC.
 

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I only use water, and removed the pre-turbo injector after testing with the Borg Warner turbo (did not work like the Garrett, and showed initial signs it would pit the wheel).

My system is two nozzles, both in the inlet between intercooler and manifold. First small nozzle is run off the controller and is used to run a lot of the time, at low boost. Second nozzle is controlled via boost switch to only come on a bit higher, when accelerating. This requires a big water tank of course.
 
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