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Are you using Water Methanol Injection?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 62.5%
  • Are you interested in using WM Injection?

    Votes: 3 37.5%
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Premium Member
Nissan patrol GU
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348 Posts
Anyone know if a second nozzle can be used on a Coolingmist system without a FSB.
 

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Premium Member
Nissan patrol GU
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348 Posts
Got rid of the boost switch as it’s activation point isn’t reliable. (Apparently can be done )The second nozzle will dribble and not atomise properly due to lower pump pressures unless a very small nozzle is used like snow #1 60ml/min . Snow rate there nozzles at 60psi pump pressure
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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53,031 Posts
Discussion Starter · #45 ·
I removed my fail safe module years ago as it couldn't handle the multiple injection points I had and would often shut the system down for an apparent but non existent issue.
Dribbling of a nozzle post turbo has no damaging side effects, as long as it can't syphon, that is why I have a Non Return Valve under the bonnet in the main feed line from the tank. I have my pump set at a tick over 200psi, had it at 250psi for a while but used to much water so dropped it back.
I'm currently injecting pre IC and in the ThrottleBody via a T piece, when/if I do go ahead with inlet manifold injection I will operate those 2 nozzles via the solenoid valve I used for pre turbo which operates via TPS, I just need to make the TPS operation a bit more controllable by reworking the TPS voltage module I built a few years ago.
 

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SUI GENERIS UTE
GQ Ute 1990 Silvertop
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6,223 Posts
Is there much benefit in this? What are your mileage comparisons between water on and water off?
There is a mileage bonus with water/methanol, but you do need to have some injection at your cruse boost level all the time. I usually set up injection slightly above cruse boost like 1 psi.
On longer trips you should see 80 to 100 klms extra per tank on a TD42. Its more about water/methanol volume cost to bonus mileage. There is hearsay evidence suggesting 14ltl/100klm to 11lt/100klms. I rarely bother about economy it is what it is but i have broken 10's at times on conservative driving on long trips usually not me driving though. But that's not a comparison as such but a TD42 doing 10's on a trip suggests water/meth is doing something.
 

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Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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Discussion Starter · #47 · (Edited)
There is a mileage bonus with water/methanol, but you do need to have some injection at your cruse boost level all the time. I usually set up injection slightly above cruse boost like 1 psi.
On longer trips you should see 80 to 100 klms extra per tank on a TD42. Its more about water/methanol volume cost to bonus mileage. There is hearsay evidence suggesting 14ltl/100klm to 11lt/100klms. I rarely bother about economy it is what it is but i have broken 10's at times on conservative driving on long trips usually not me driving though. But that's not a comparison as such but a TD42 doing 10's on a trip suggests water/meth is doing something.
As you know I have been running WM for quite a few years, I have never noticed any 'significant/verifiable' change in fuel eco at various WM settings and I've had a few. To go that way I would need a much, much larger tank which I would love to do but don't have the room and I don't want a tank under floor for many reasons. Like you I have my injection starting just above cruise boost so I can get the K's out of a tank.

Away on trips I top up at servo's with plain water, at home I use 10% Methanol just to keep the water in condition.

EDIT: I'm sure I did a listing somewhere back but here is an updated version.

WM Nozzle List
  • DO Nozzles
    0.75gph = 47.5ml/min
    1.0gph = 63.3ml/min
    2.0gph = 126.6ml/min
    3.0gph = 189.9ml/min
    4.0gph = 253.3ml/min

  • CM Nozzles
  • CM1 = 85 @ 200psi
    CM2 = 180-250ml/min
    CM3 = 250-300ml/min
    The injectors are sized CM2, CM3, CM5, CM7, CM10, CM12, CM14. The CM just means Coolingmist. The number is the flow rate in gallons per hour at 100 psi. The kit may run up to 200 psi which will give more flow. In simple terms the formula goes as follows. ie, the CM10, at 100 psi flows at 10 GPH at 150 psi its 12.2. The formula is 10*SQRT(150/100) at 200 psi that would be over 14. Just take the known flowrate (10 in this case) and then multiply it by the square root of the new pressure (150 in this example. You can do 200 if you like) divided by the known pressure.
Snow Nozzles
#1. 60ml/min
#2. 100ml/min
#3. 175ml/min
#4. 225ml/min
#5. 375ml/min
#6. 625ml/min

Nozzle Tip Thread Size, all upper connection threads are 1/8” NPT
DO = 1/8” NPT
CM = 3/8’ NF
SNOW = 1/8” NPT
 

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Premium Member
nissan
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7,792 Posts
In theory there is Overboard, but I have never tried to do any proper testing to prove it.
I understood there was in theory but I was interested in actual experience if you had any data. I just didn't see much benefit with injection at lower boost levels unless there was a substantial increase in economy. Low boost injection has the significant disadvantage that it runs the tank dry before you know it unless the tank is huge.

I once tried water induction on a Holden red motor. I wouldn't call it injection because there was no pump involved. I just modified the ventury of the carb with a nozzle connected to a 4 litre water tank. I experimented with a few nozzle sizes but to get any measurable improvement in either power or economy required enough water that I'd run the 4L tank dry in a 4 hour highway trip. Best improvements were gained with a bit of extra ignition advance but this was enough to cause ping under high load if the water ran out. I ended up ditching the idea because the improvements in both power and economy were no more than 10% and I just didn't have the space for a tank larger than 4 litres. Having the water tank last less than the fuel tank made operation of it too much of a PITA and the extra ignition advance made keeping the water tank filled a requirement.

I'd have thought a low boost injector would drain the water tank faster than the fuel tank would last which would also be a nuisance, particularly when any extra power is not really noticed at low boost since the engine is not running at max power. The inconvenience of a rapidly emptying water tank might be worth while if the economy increase was significant but not otherwise.
 

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SUI GENERIS UTE
GQ Ute 1990 Silvertop
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6,223 Posts
I have 40 litres in the head board for water/Methanol for the 200 litres usable under tray diesel tank. If i run out of W/M there is 100 litres of water inbuilt in the tray. That leaves room to move for water injection.

By the same token i have used all that 40 litres in a bit over an hour playing in soft sand.
 

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Registered
GQ Dual Cab. TD42Ti with fruit.
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6,056 Posts
Got rid of the boost switch as it’s activation point isn’t reliable. (Apparently can be done )The second nozzle will dribble and not atomise properly due to lower pump pressures unless a very small nozzle is used like snow #1 60ml/min . Snow rate there nozzles at 60psi pump pressure
I still have the solenoid in place, just in conjunction with a boost switch.
 

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Registered
GQ Dual Cab. TD42Ti with fruit.
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6,056 Posts
I have once recorded 9.8L/100km with a tray load of furniture in my dual cab. Mostly I never bother, but on that occasion I had the exact km's and litres used.

I have an 80 litre tank, and have the water injection working a lot of the time with a small nozzle. I have on a number of occasions on long trips, used 40 litres of water. But I have never bothered to record it properly to give actual numbers used.
 

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Premium Member
Nissan patrol GU
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348 Posts
I’ve always wanted to add a second nozzle to my setup but didn’t want to add it for the sake of having it unless there was some benefit.I’m more than happy with the single nozzle at the throttle body, which works extremely well. After seeing the promising results @geeyoutoo has had with the IC inlet location of a second nozzle I decided it was definitely worth having a go as I’ve got most of the fittings to do it. Just had to order some elbows and another nozzle (should arrive some time next week). For those of us that have a HPD IC the inlet pipe is just under half the length of the CCIC (cross country ic) inlet. The HPD inlet gets completely covered by the silicone hose compared to CCIC. After spending a week ring various companies/ business to get 40mm added to IC inlet,no one wanted to do it. It also meant that the intercooler piping had to be measured cut to length and re beaded also. I spent a couple of hours looking at ways off manipulating the silicone hose to gain some room but that’s simply not possible. The ic inlet pipe covers almost 40% of silicone hose and there’s a 1-2cm gap between intercooler piping and ic inlet pipe. The plan is to stick a 90deg elbow nozzle holder in between gap between the beads of each end . This allows the nozzle to sit in the ic inlet pipe past the bead . Just waiting on nozzle to arrive with 90 degree elbow
 

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Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
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53,031 Posts
Discussion Starter · #57 ·
I’ve always wanted to add a second nozzle to my setup but didn’t want to add it for the sake of having it unless there was some benefit.I’m more than happy with the single nozzle at the throttle body, which works extremely well. After seeing the promising results @geeyoutoo has had with the IC inlet location of a second nozzle I decided it was definitely worth having a go as I’ve got most of the fittings to do it. Just had to order some elbows and another nozzle (should arrive some time next week). For those of us that have a HPD IC the inlet pipe is just under half the length of the CCIC (cross country ic) inlet. The HPD inlet gets completely covered by the silicone hose compared to CCIC. After spending a week ring various companies/ business to get 40mm added to IC inlet,no one wanted to do it. It also meant that the intercooler piping had to be measured cut to length and re beaded also. I spent a couple of hours looking at ways off manipulating the silicone hose to gain some room but that’s simply not possible. The ic inlet pipe covers almost 40% of silicone hose and there’s a 1-2cm gap between intercooler piping and ic inlet pipe. The plan is to stick a 90deg elbow nozzle holder in between gap between the beads of each end . This allows the nozzle to sit in the ic inlet pipe past the bead . Just waiting on nozzle to arrive with 90 degree elbow
Worth a try mate.
 

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Premium Member
Nissan patrol GU
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348 Posts
@mikecooper422 I’m using a 50/50 mix at the moment for cleaning purposes only,then use a 80/20 mix water/ meth for every day running. Most of the water comes from my rain water tank which I have made a filter to remove any fine dust dirt and algae before mixing with methanol.
 
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