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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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What rubbish, have you actually tested this yourself? When my injection turns on my EGT drops 150 degrees nearly instantly!
Agree, I'm not injecting as much or as high pressure (only 210psi) as you are currently, but I have been injecting various amounts and mixtures for many years, in either 2 or 3 locations, the highest I have injected is 7 gallons/hour of 50/50 while experimenting and I can assure the nay sayers it does not increase EGT on a ZD30. For the past several years I have only used 10% meth just to keep my tank water in good condition, this is due to meth costs up here. When I do long trips I dont carry meth but will add a %age of vinegar which I pick up at general stores out in the bush along the way. Currently injecting pre turbo and post turbo (throttle body). EGT's fine, none of my wm injecting has ever been problematic.
 

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Water/Meth has been proven to increase EGT's
This depends on how much water and how much meth.

I'm yet to see a factory water/meth setup in a truck.
If you think anywhere it would be beneficial it would be in a 600hp signature Cummins hauling 62.5t or more up big inclines.
Water meth injection is only suitable for engines that only occasionally need high power and then for brief periods of time. Large trucks need high power frequently for long periods of time.
 

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This depends on how much water and how much meth.


Water meth injection is only suitable for engines that only occasionally need high power and then for brief periods of time. Large trucks need high power frequently for long periods of time.

I don't have any experience with water/meth, as stated I don't like the idea of injecting water into a diesel.
So, I look at those in the industry who do. Gale Banks uses water/meth and has tested extensively. He has video where he has proven that egt's rise with its use. He also built the race truck which I still think holds numerous records that uses massive amounts of water/meth.
 

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GUII ZD30DI Wgn
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I don't have any experience with water/meth, as stated I don't like the idea of injecting water into a diesel.
So, I look at those in the industry who do. Gale Banks uses water/meth and has tested extensively. He has video where he has proven that egt's rise with its use. He also built the race truck which I still think holds numerous records that uses massive amounts of water/meth.
I'm not Gale Banks and don't profess to be in his league, but my many years of 'first hand' experience with WM doesn't agree with that, then again I've never gone over the safety margin of 50/50, and remember a dyno doesn't always tell the whole story.
 

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SUI GENERIS UTE
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As smart and as experienced Gale Banks is that vid was a super charged duramax not turbo charged. Engine driven charging not exhaust gas driven. thats a big BIG difference on EGT. Also he used different values of methanol ratios not water volume ratio's relative to volume injected. His results are very VERY predictable. If he injected more ratio volume water (so more total volume or same water volume) then that smart man would have concluded different results. Obviously a dumn ass engineer knows more methanol is going to produce more heat you need more water to compensate that methanol heat generation.

As for our mere 200rwkw TD you can inject a lot of water before quenching add methanol and you need to add more volume injected or the same volume of water to get the same EGT AS BEFORE even more volume for the water ratio total to lower the EGT or the same EGT. The water is the product that lowers EGT or absorbs heat not the bloody methanol that crap burns so more heat, sorry Gale you [email protected] up that test which has confused a few here.

Water injection has been used since the dawn of the piston engine petrol or spirit fuel and diesel. During both wars water methanol injection was used on aircraft extensively. It was used in tank engines as well to name a land based usage. Water only injection was used extensively on diesel gensets in the 50's to compensate for instant load issues until better governor controls were invented like Bosch did in the late 50's. Mirrlees / Blackstone diesel turbo engines use water injection especially on ships engines.

As for OEM offered water injection well that was commom place in the 50's and 60's a quote for you copy and paste from a very VERY quick google search.

"Ford’s German division has filed a patent for a new water injection system that could bring exponential improvements in efficiencies and high horsepower gains.

Truthfully, water injection isn’t a new technology, World War II fighter planes used vaporized water to improve low-speed thrust during take off, plus, an extra spurt of speed during dogfights. Post-war, both Saab and Oldsmobile offered vehicles with factory installed water injection systems before the technology enjoyed a renaissance in high-performance Group B rally cars during the ’80s."

Not trying to be smart ass here just a few real facts on a very important best bang for your buck performance system second to a turbo charger on a diesel.
 

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And as Pete said, the amount some of us spend on the money pit diesels we own it amazes me how very few run water inj.
Best bang for buck.
 

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I'm not a fan of injecting water into a diesel. Water/Meth has been proven to increase EGT's.
I'm a relative noob in WMI having only started this year, but I have done a fair amount of reading before venturing into it.

OMN touched on the nub of your issue: WM will only increase EGT's if you are running higher concentrations of Methanol in your water. If you are running lower concentrations it can only lower EGT's. I'm am sure if you ran 75/25 WM/W ratio your EGT's would be higher than stock. Conversely if you only ran 25% meth they would be much lower. That's why most people recommend 50/50 and small nozzles to start (also wm becomes flammable above that level).

Sent from my Patrol using Tapatalk
 

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I think most have missed the point.
Gale Banks is wrong?
Not how I see it.
Gale was trying to show that if you add methanol at any level, you get an increase in power and a subsequence increase in heat. He deliberately didn't add extra water to only show the relationship in increasing the percentage of methanol.

He was debunking the myth that adding water/meth only late in the rpm range when egt's had reached a high set point to control egt's was counter productive.

Remember there is probably no bigger advocate for water/meth than Gale Banks. He uses it extensively and also sells supporting products.
Gale uses w/m early in the rpm range through to upper limits of rpm range to increase power as opposed to most who inject late when egt's reach a set point.
From his testing I would say if you want to control high egt's only you would use straight water only and inject at the high egt set point, but if you wanted a direct gain in power, injection of water/meth through the entire rev range.
He used the same dyno and only changed the value of the methanol so the results would be comparable.
The actual number increase is insignificant but the rate of increase is significant. This use of the dyno does actually show the whole story.
 

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@plumma As i said in the written word, Gale [email protected] up i didn't say he was wrong. That Vid was confusing and not direct enough in his findings. And its fantastic you are the only one who did actually get what the results were exactly and not the perception the vid presented. It bloody obvious and simple logic, add more methanol a very powerful spirit fuel that burns will always increase more heat the laws of physics suggest so. Gale knows this obviously but his vid was not presented correctly to show that message and that vid did not bust a myth either far from it.

Gale didn't invent 50/50 mix that ratio was trialled and tested and white paper published decades before Gale was born. There was and is a reason why we have a max ratio for us dumb ass diesel heads to stick too and the reason why you dont go above 50/50. All Gale did was an experiment done before Gale was born by just as smart engineers to prove what happens to EGT and cylinder heat and pressure after 50/50 mix no myth bust i can assure you.
 

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The myth i took from the video was trying to control egts's when they reach high levels with w/m is counter productive.
Maybe with high a percentage of meth, but with minimal meth and high volumes of water it's easily achievable.

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The myth i took from the video was trying to control egts's when they reach high levels with w/m is counter productive.
Yes but in the real world it does. Most people experience high EGT while trying to maintain speed going up an incline etc. I can't explain it as good as others can with all their engineering/technical words but with the way meth alone works when injected and the way it helps in the combustion process it means you don't need to use the same amount of throttle to maintain the same speed which in turn reduces EGT. Then throw in the benefits of the water for all that cooling and it's a deadset no brainier for me.

BMW has now committed to this technology and working with Bosch started using it in certain factory versions of the M4 GTS range. Latest news is they plan to trickle it down to their other models as the tighter emissions standards and the need to make more power from smaller displacement engines have now made it more economically viable.
 

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The Vc2 looks like the newer controller
When I bought stage 2 progressive in June, I was sent out the cmgs ,but didnt open the box til recently the same listing now shows the vr2 controller ? if anyone can point out any differences or bonuses for either controller boost or egt functionality
Many Thanks j
 
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