[geeyoutoo]

After there being so many wheel wobble threads have decided to run a poll on the top 10 reasons why we get wobbles, Wheel balance isn't included because it is a basic start point we assume has been done, so, what was the biggest single contributing factor in solving your 'commonly' referred to as DEATH WOBBLES???

 

[geeyoutoo]

You need wheel balance in that list.
That's the big one making a difference for me.
All the other things made only slight improvements.

Wheel balance should be the very first port of call for any wheel wobble, that is why I didn't include it, this is more about the harder 'death wobbles'.

 

[geeyoutoo]

91 TD42 with a 2" lift. Has had all sorts of shimmys and shakes that gave been improved/worsened though wheel balances, new bearings, rod ends, etc over the years.

DEATH WOBBLE - an entirely different thing. How I've generally seen this described (and how I've experienced it) is when something like a bump in the road or reaching a certain speed triggers a big amplitude 'wobble' through the front end. Literally the steering wheel almost flies out of your hand and it feels like the front suspension is ripping itself apart. First time it happened I thought a wheel bearing had let go or something. Impossible to drive with and you have to immediately slow right down to make it stop. Your passengers will want to get out and hitch hike home.
In my case, replacing the panhard bushes fixed it immediately (thank god). I have heard of this as the most common death wobble fix. The old bushes only had the tiniest amount of play but sure enough that was the problem.

I feel like some of the wobbles people are talking about here aren't the actual dreaded "death wobble" which, as the name implies, feels like your front diff has come adrift and your about to die. Big difference...

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Agree, this is not about shimmy where a wheel balance usually fix's it, this is about the more serious side of 'Death Wobbles' as named.

 

[geeyoutoo]

Just changed to more offset steelies from factory alloys. Bit of wobble now. Add it to the list

Done, I had one spare spot .

 

[geeyoutoo]

I'm on my third damper.......... Yes it does make a difference but often not a fix.

 

[geeyoutoo]

Mines fixed, whooo hooo, had a wheel balance and a tow in adjustment and it's gone, surprised me I was convinced I was going to have to adjust the top swivel hub bearing. I dropped it into BJ's for a wheel balance and check just to eliminate the possibility and now it's fine, when I look back it seemed to happen around the time the Eaton was fitted and the wheel bearing seals and swivel hub seals etc were done, so now I'm wondering whether a wheel weight was dislodged during the work.

Anyway I can start my 12000k trip without the bloody wobble, if only everything was that simple to fix, as said next step was going to be upper shim and panhard bushes.........

 

[geeyoutoo]

So far I have changed out front and rear panhards, tie rod and drag link, all from superior.
Caster bushes are 10,000km old
Tyres are 500km old.
suspension is old man emu 2" at 25,000km old
I have removed most of my wobbles, but they are still there, especially under braking. I suppose I am up for new rotors, wheel bearings and king pin bearings.
Any other suggestions?

What caster do you have?

 

[geeyoutoo]

3 degree I think. The mechanic did them. Proper rubber bushes

Cool, that's fine. You mention wheel bearings, are they loose? also remember not enough preload on the king pins can cause an issue.

 

[geeyoutoo]

I chased this, the 85km/hr wobble. Wheel bearings packed, wheels balanced, steering box lash, new tyres--it would seem to go away then return. Then I found the chassis was rusted through on the bottom inside of the box section where the ac drain is. Had to be underneath looking back out to spot it. Chassis repaired, problem gone.

Wow, you must have had some serious rust and some serious chassis flex, that is a quite an unusual issue.

 

[geeyoutoo]

have to agree with you there I don't think a lot of people have felt the real death wobble

Death Wobbles has been a generic term used over many years in many threads, the idea of this poll and thread was to find the common causes of 'wobbles' (apart from wheel alighnment as explained earlier) generally so that members new and old could formulate a plan to solve them.

 

[geeyoutoo]

My order of check...

1/ front panhard
2/ front wheel balance and or tyre condition (run out)
3/ king pin preload and or bearings

I must have taken my whoopie to 20 places, not one of them nailed it - probably because a computer can't answer the bloody question for them, gone are the days of good mechanics!! But if you do find a good mechanic please let me know, cause I'm over working on cars - I'm to busy farming!

Anyway, I recently bought a second front panhard to use as a spare for when my bus decides to head shake. Usually its first thing in the morning particularly in winter the head shakes are at there worst - when tyres are cold and have sort of a flat spot from parking overnight on cold ground.

Just 2 weeks ago I noticed my GU tried to do a bit of a head shake, also the front end was getting a little light, just a tad more driving concentration to hold a straight line than usual so I decided to fit the new panhard. All steering drift disappeared, it held a nice straight line and it drove nice again, without a shake.

Interestingly, when the panhards were changed out, the one that came off had absolutely no sign of abnormal movement in the bearings or adjustable thread!

Sometimes it can be very difficult to feel the play in the panhard bushes when just trying to feel play statically. Good you found the issue it can be quite a challenge sometimes.

Would really like to see you go into the newbies section and introduce yourself to the members, tell us a bit about yourself and a bit more about your rig.

Just noticed you mentioned bearings, your not confusing panhard with drag link are you?

 

[geeyoutoo]

Crack in the chassis near the steering box. Welded up and plated and no more wobble.

Wow that would be a fairly rare and serious issue

 

[geeyoutoo]

No play in my panhard bushes with someone rocking side to side. Unbolted from diff and could rotate rod quite easy. Replaced bushes and vibration gone.
Lesson is don't rely on any side to side movement to determine bushes are worn.

True, the loads on the road are much heavier than what can be exerted by hand.

 

[geeyoutoo]

Surely that suggests that the problem is primarily wheel balance?

Yes indeed mate, I think that is a fair and logical conclusion to arrive at.....however it always pays to check all the bases! I remember many years back after a wheel balance and rotation on my old GQ I had a similar thing happen, I had the car back there 3 times, was fuming and vocalised my displeasure only to find the next week that my driver side radius arm bushes had flogged out....got them replaced and hey presto all good. So with that in mind I got under the GU on Sunday morning with spanners and pry bar and started going over everything....what did I find??? Totally flogged out lower (diff side) panhard bush and the nut was also loose no doubt because the bush is flogged out and it has been slapping about. I picked up some replacement bushes yesterday and will replace them asap. I am happy that I ordered the adjustable drag link because that will finally fix the off centred steering wheel I have been living with.....and I am also happy this has pushed me to get the steering box rebuilt as I have been living with additional play in the steering wheel for the last couple of years as well. All of this should bring the old girl back to near new steering...….
I will let you know how the panhard bush replacement goes and then again after I replace the other stuff and get the sterering box overhauled.

Wheel balance was intentionally left out of the top 10 fix's, at the time there was a rash of 'death wobble' threads so this thread was started based on feedback, the reason for omitting balance was because it's expected that is the first port of call for elimination being very easy and a commonly known start point.

 

[geeyoutoo]

So i have this slight steering vibration, definetly not the death wobbles and I'm really trying to go down the route of not throwing money at it. Let me describe my symptoms and maybe someone can point me in the right direction. I have done the following, all of which have not helped (I've done this stuff because it was due and worn out, not chasing the wobble).
1. Shocks front and rear
2. Steering dampner
3. Track rod
4. Adjustable drag link
5. Wheel alignment
6. All new tyres/balances
7. Tightened wheel bearings (still looking if I did this correctly, whats the factory manual procedure) ?

I have not as yet had a proper inspection of any bushes, just haven't had the time to take a look, but would be supprised as the vehicles is only at 166,000KMs to be a bushing issue (2005 nissan patrol)

My steering wheel vibration is light and would not describe it as violent or what people refer to as the death wobbles. It usually happens around 85-95KPH. However it is intermittent, it does not always happen. It seems to happen more when the road is turning slightly left at speed and if put the wheel back to center quickly it stops, taking fast right turns seems to shake less, different road surfaces also affect it, usually smooth roads being worse, go figure. What I find interesting is that I get it the worst when I haven't driven the car for a couple of days, no idea why this makes it worse, but definetly it seems like there is more of a chance of happening if the vehicle has been sitting.

Wheel alignment was done by fulcrum so I trust there setup and front toe was set to 0.6 for front left and right.

The steering does feel very loose and I saw some suggestions about tightening the steering wheel box, any instructions on how to do this ?

Any other advice I would appreciate, I'm not going to tackle this problem by randomly throwing parts at it, not at this stage anyway.

Cheers,
Aleks

What was caster? Download the manual via the link in my signature for full detail of bearing and pin adjustment.

 

[geeyoutoo]

I'll upload the cster when i get home.

I downloaded your manual a while ago i tried looking for the wheek bearing part but couldnt find the section, where is it located ?

It is in there, just need to go through and check each section, take notes of each heading to make it easoer next time your looking for a section.

 

[geeyoutoo]

Will have more of a look throught the books.

Caster left 3.94
Caster Right 3.61

Can caster even be adjusted, I thought you could only do toe ?

Cheers

Caster looks OK, from those numbers I can only assume you don't have a lift? No caster cannot be simply adjusted, offset bushes can be fited to give more caster or things like drop boxes or special arms, the last 2 being the most expensive options. But as said yours looks OK.

 

[geeyoutoo]

Check steering connections to box and pitman arm. Also panhard bushes can feel fine until loaded.

 

[geeyoutoo]

Will do. What's the best way to check the panhard bushes ?

I tried wobbling the steering left and right quickly while stationary and it feels very loose and there is a sligh clunk, not sure if it's normal. I've never had a 4x4 before so it's hard for me to say how much loosness in a steering wheel is normal as all my other cars have been tight steering sport cars.

Lets check top part of steering first. With engine off how much freeplay is in the steering without wheels moving?

 

[geeyoutoo]

I've been under the car quickly today and this is what I found. The front radius arm bushes seem to have cracked around the bolt part:
View attachment 541871
So where I have marked it red you can definetly see it seperating and cracking all around there, but testing with a pry bar they still feel pretty tight.

The panhard arm bushes look ok to although i think its hard to diagnose them without taking the arm off, but they do feel tight.

The steering wheel freeplay is about 60mm so way above the manual stated 35mm or less (Thank you geeyoutoo for the manual). So I'll start with adjusting the steering wheel freeplay as that's free and see how we go from there. The steering has always felt a little too loose to me as in it kind of feels dangerous at high speeds so adjusting the steering box may fix several issues for me. Will advise if the steering box adjustment fixes my issue which is intermittent wheel shimney around 90kph.

Cool, I would replace those bushes, only do one thing at a time otherwise you won't know what fixed it. my old DI has around 25mm freeplay from centre so yours is right up there.