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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having only just picked up my new Patrol I havnt had much of a chance to play with it yet ..... but it seems that flicking into the tiptronic gate selects manual mode not a sports shift mode???

So how is everyone towing their heavy boats/trailers??

I was thinking that 5th gear once up and running looks the best for my 2500kg boat/trailer as this is a 1:1 ratio ... question is will the patrol use all the gears under 5th or will I need to select them manually each time I slow down and then speed back up??

If not do you use drive to get up and going and then across to manual once underway???

Cheers

Ben.......
 

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Ben

I generally use auto to get moving. ..and shift to 5th when cruising. If things get steep I use 4th to get over the issue then back to 5th.

I don't really use lower gears unless going up a really steep section on or braking going downhill or into intersection s.

It seems to stay locked in chosen gears ok and will automatically change down if brake to slow down.

John b
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sounds like I suspected....

My 4.8 5 speed auto would just lock out 5th gear in sports mode but would still use the gears as required
This was sometimes quite annoying as it preferred an early kick back to 3rd instead of holding on to 4th gear.

Sounds like the Y62 box tries to hold whatever gear you have selected unless road speed drops below a set parameter.

I just wish it worked like ford 6 speed autos work.... select sport to lock out top gear but still in auto then it will manually change only when you use tiptronic....
Anyway I am sure I will get used to it.
 

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My experience has been that it doesn't drop down quickly when in manual mode. I've towed my van up long hills in 5th and its slowed and lugged away not changing

I think parameters just use the underlying power and torque to over cone the obstacle. Drop it into 4th and it rockets off....

J
 

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Yup, there isn't a sports mode like the Ford transmission in my old Ranger. Either auto or manual, that's it.

My boat is 2.8t and I find the transmission is almost always in a gear that's too low. It wants to kick down all the time and it wastes fuel and doesn't use the torque of the engine. I tow between 110k/h to 130k/h (satellite, not the speedo). For overtaking I flip into auto, when the rapid kickdown is essential and the full throttle up shifts are spot on. It's so nice to be able to overtake comfortably after years of towing with a 200hp diesel and taking forever to get past someone.

I usually get up to 90k/h or so and flip into manual, holding 7th as much as possible. Upshifts are smoother when in auto, in manual they jerk a little and are more aggressive, so use auto to get up to speed and then lock it in the high gears. If you have a decent rate of speed (110+) up you can climb a lot of hills in 6th or 7th, 5th is for the steep stuff and 3rd and 4th is for getting the hell outta dodge. You actually get ok economy if you get a run up for the hills and use full throttle in a high gear to hold that speed.

The transmission will hold the gear you select and not upshift or downshift unless the road speed drops below the trigger speed, then it will downshift but not upshift back to the gear you selected. You can hit the rev limiter and it won't upshift. Which is exactly how it should be.
 

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Well detailed. ..I was struggling to explain the subtleties you outlined. Basically. ..it will tow to pretty much any style.

John b
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sheikshifter..... I am pretty impressed that it tows in 6th or 7th.

5th at 100kph is only 2250rpm..... I would have thought the engine is happier being deeper into its torque band and the gearbox should be happier in a1:1 ratio instead of overdrive.....

For example I had a turbo falcon that would pull a two ton boat up every hill in 6th (manual gearbox) but it would always smell got after a run..... Drive it in 5th it always seemed happier!!!

But again maybe I am just used to old tech not the new age....... Hapay to be educated if my theory is incorrect....
 

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100 kph on the speedo is only 91kph true speed don't forget. 100 true kph in 5th is 2500 or so.

Turbo engines are is different, EGT (exhaust gas temp) can get sky high at full throttle at low revs.

The vvel system in the patrol allows then engine to make 90% ish of peak torque at 2000 rpm. As a general rule the slower the engine is turning the more efficient it is, you are better off (more efficient) at full throttle in a high gear than part throttle a lower one. EGR and vvel make higher rpm part throttle operation more efficient but this rule still stands.

Bottom line is don't be afraid to upshift and put the engine below 2000rpm. Not sure why people obsess about needing to use a gear that gives a 1:1 ratio in the gearbox when the diffs have a 4:1 reduction ratio anyhow. I think it comes for the old English and american overdrive gearboxes from the 70s and 80s where top gear was super tall and useless for acceleration.
 
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The transmission will hold the gear you select and not upshift or downshift unless the road speed drops below the trigger speed, then it will downshift but not upshift back to the gear you selected. You can hit the rev limiter and it won't upshift. Which is exactly how it should be.

Exactly.

Setting it to a specific gear achieves two things:

It won't go above that gear. I.e: it'll hard rev but still maintain the fifth gear.

It'll try it's best to prolong before downshifting.

I personally prefer that a car doesn't shift between gears too much. My understanding is you're wearing it out faster.

I tow a small to medium size trailer with a dirt bike or two (each bike approx 110kg).

And 99% is on flat highways. Therefore I'll get it shift up to 7th gear.
I drive about 160 kph too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
mine spins 2250rpms at a gps indicated 100kph.......

Toyota 200series have a pretty modern 6speed auto ...... they state heavy loads should be towed in 5th ....... Ford have a gorgeous and reputably tough 6speed ZF box and advise towing should be performed in 5th as well .......

I am glad to hear the gearbox prefers to hold a gear then shift down ...... but in MY car I wont be pushing the friendship pulling big loads in 7th ...... what you do in yours is your preference but I need mine to last at least 5 years .......
 

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Yes...I have run 6 and 7 as options to see how it manages. If running at 110 to 120 true speed will flow along effortlessly

However the thing I noticed was studying fuel graphic that use rate when loading engine seemed to stay higher than if box moved to 5 even with higher revvs.

So I tend to run 5 for this reason. . Maybe others can check it out and let me know whether I need stronger glasses..lol

John b
 

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mine spins 2250rpms at a gps indicated 100kph.......

Toyota 200series have a pretty modern 6speed auto ...... they state heavy loads should be towed in 5th ....... Ford have a gorgeous and reputably tough 6speed ZF box and advise towing should be performed in 5th as well .......

I am glad to hear the gearbox prefers to hold a gear then shift down ...... but in MY car I wont be pushing the friendship pulling big loads in 7th ...... what you do in yours is your preference but I need mine to last at least 5 years .......
Mine rarely holds high gears, it is always downshifting.

Some transmissions need more rpm for cooling, the pump is driven by the torque converter and they get too hot if run at high load low rpm. I couldn't find anything in the nissan handbook saying to run low gears and high revs all the time. It actually says to use 7th for all normal driving at highway speeds. Whatever that means. The ford ranger handbook definitely said to tow in sport mode and avoid being in a too high gear. Looks like nissan don't care what you do.

The other reason some boxes shouldn't be run in high gear is the torque converter slip is higher at lower rpm and therefore efficiency is lost in the torque converter and the heat load on the converter is high. The patrol 7 speed seems to lock up the torque converter in every gear higher than 3rd, so converter slip is zero and this isn't an issue.

I would expect that in our climate trans heat wouldn't be a huge issue, given that these gearboxes are belted mercilessly in the Middle East, sustaining very high speeds and the subsequent massive susutained power throughput. And then think about the USA, where a 5000 foot climb is a hill. We don't have any serious hills in Australia, try touring in Colorado and see what hills are like.

Run in whatever gear you like, but I think your are just wasting fuel and wearing the engine faster.
 

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I just wish it worked like ford 6 speed autos work.... select sport to lock out top gear but still in auto then it will manually change only when you use tiptronic....
Anyway I am sure I will get used to it.
I had a PX Ranger 5 cyl and sport auto mode didn't lock out 6th. It would still upshift into 6th, just later than usual.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I will definitely try out 7th and 6th vs 5th for myself.


I have to disagree with you regarding your comment about running moderately higher rpms leading to premature engine wear.... This is quite simply not true... to make the equivalent power with less but bigger fuel/air explosions the forces on the pistons, and crank are amplified, over labouring an engine will kill it quicker than letting it spin a little faster..... Driving near the redline all day of course will expedite wear as well..... It's all about common sense really.

Has anyone asked nissan.... I wouldn't bother asking my dealer.... I doubt they even tow a box trailer on weekends!
 

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I will definitely try out 7th and 6th vs 5th for myself.


I have to disagree with you regarding your comment about running moderately higher rpms leading to premature engine wear.... This is quite simply not true... to make the equivalent power with less but bigger fuel/air explosions the forces on the pistons, and crank are amplified, over labouring an engine will kill it quicker than letting it spin a little faster..... Driving near the redline all day of course will expedite wear as well..... It's all about common sense really.

Has anyone asked nissan.... I wouldn't bother asking my dealer.... I doubt they even tow a box trailer on weekends!
Agree, my dealer wouldn't know how to fuel a y62 let alone drive it.

What you say about wear is right. Common sense says that you shouldn't lug the engine either. Bottom line is that I don't think there is any reason to not use 6th and 7th in the right circumstances.
 

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For heavy loads, I think the best gear is the one with as close to 1.0 gear ratio. I believe 7th is 0.775 but been trying to find what ration the 5th and 6th are. Inherently it should be stronger based on shows I have watched. If this logic applies to other brands it should apply to nissan?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I found ratios on Phil Lord review

GEAR RATIOS
1st 4.887
2nd 3.170
3rd 2.027
4th 1.412
5th 1.000
6th 0.864
7th 0.775

Reverse 4.041
Final drive 3.357
Transfer ratio Low 2.679
Transfer ratio Hig.h 1:1

J
 

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For heavy loads, I think the best gear is the one with as close to 1.0 gear ratio. I believe 7th is 0.775 but been trying to find what ration the 5th and 6th are. Inherently it should be stronger based on shows I have watched. If this logic applies to other brands it should apply to nissan?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There's no logic to this 1:1 thing at all. Why would 1:1 be preferable to any other ratio? No one has ever been able to explain it to me. It's an old wives tale.

I think people might assume that if the gear ratio is 1:1 that the gearbox is somehow negated, like it's bridged out, input and output shafts are spinning at the same speeds so there aren't any gears transmitting power therefore more efficient or something. But this isn't true in manual or auto gearboxes, the torque is still being applied to the gear train, it just isn't being multiplied or divided by a reduction or increase in speed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Effectively yes it is negated..... There is no torque multiplication or division so there is no added or reduced forces.
Of course there is still heat as the tranny fluid has to make the coupling.

The truth be told is that each subsequent higher gear is creating more force on the output side than the previous gear. So your more likely to damage 5th than you are 4th..... Even though 5th is a 1:1 gear 4th is stronger again.

You don't start creating higher output force than input until you reach overdrive ratios hence why they considered more fragile..... But really 5th is more susceptible than 4th and 4th more susceptible then 3rd etc.......

I will be towing in 6th at the highest I think and be dropping to 5th in headwinds and inclines......I can't see how this new 7 speed box is any different to other 5 and 6 speed boxes..... It just has a few extra ratios in between.. Like two overdriven gears instead of one.....

Edit: The above should read I will use 5th predominantly unless anyone can provide documented evidence that Jatco have beefed up the overdriven gears in the 7 speed to be used for towing....
 
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