Patrol 4x4 - Nissan Patrol Forum banner
21 - 35 of 35 Posts

·
Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
Joined
·
54,899 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I think the lesson learned from the experience of many knowledgable people is crimp with quality crimps and crimpers, it is just so easy and basically idiot proof with a small amount of care.
For new and older members with limited experience, make sure all parts are clean and well presented then crimp don't solder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
179 Posts
No problems with soldered or crimped joints when used in the right place and purpose.
But NEVER solder a wire that is going to be crimped or bolted.
The solder gives after while and you get voltage drop across the joint or induced electrical noise.
In a prev life I used to give input into Soldering and connection standards committee's some years ago for Standards Aust.
We tested and fault found hundreds of issues with connections and soldering in many fields of application
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
495 Posts
Wow
I guess there is a stronger arguement for crimped being better than solder from the number of comments here.
There certainly is a consensus to prove so.

All I know is that over the past 40+ years I have never had a single problem with a soldered joint.
All the problems I've seen come from botchloks, those cheap repco crimped terminals/connectors, or dry joints between connector blocks / fuses.
The more modern sealed connector blocks are really good, but in aftermarket accessory harnesses there has been enough of those "factory crimped" terminals done badly enough for them to seem less reliable than a good soldered joint.

In all fairness I've never used the hydraulic crimpers discused here because soldered joints have always been in the "if it works every time, why change it? " category.
Crimps are probably the crows toes for electricals, but I'm loyal to what I trust.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: onetrack

·
I Have Imaginary Friends
Patrol Hybrid.
Joined
·
20,884 Posts
I’ve always soldered, never had a problem. PMG training in soldering may have helped. I did do a short course in lead wiping with them, never used the skill again and never will, but damn it does make a neat lead cable join.
 
  • Like
Reactions: onetrack

·
Registered
2005 TD42Ti ute
Joined
·
381 Posts
Hydraulic crimpers and patrols is just a joke. Manual crimpers are fine for any and all bigger terminations and lugs that may be in a patrol.

As for joing wires for general things in a patrol, solder will smoke a crimp. (Especially a normal 12v crimp) It seems like some can't solder properly so it's better off to blame the solder. :rolleyes:

Also a join and a termination are 2 different things. The OP seems to be about a join.
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
6,015 Posts
I’ve noticed that any spliced wiring in the original Patrol loom is always soldered. This is always inside a loom with multiple other wires where movement is pretty much impossible and there’s no risk of oxidation.
I prefer crimping and I use those crimps that have the heatshrink already on them when butt joining wires.
 

·
Registered
nissan
Joined
·
13 Posts
I’m no expert but pretty much every solder joint I made myself that failed, was due to the wire flexing / moving, or due to vibration. And they always fail right next to the solder joint.
And that's why you need to secure wiring to prevent it from moving around. Wiring flopping around, is a recipe for electrical troubles.
You don't see wiring flopping around in aircraft fuselages and wings, it's secured every 100 or 150mm so it can't move and create huge problems.
 

·
Registered
2005 TD42Ti ute
Joined
·
381 Posts
And that's why you need to secure wiring to prevent it from moving around. Wiring flopping around, is a recipe for electrical troubles.
You don't see wiring flopping around in aircraft fuselages and wings, it's secured every 100 or 150mm so it can't move and create huge problems.
exactly. Simple stuff hey. i don't think electrical is for everyone. Its way to easy to be rough and 95% of issues will come from people being rough. Which is the whole point of this post in the first place.
 

·
Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
Joined
·
54,899 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
exactly. Simple stuff hey. i don't think electrical is for everyone. Its way to easy to be rough and 95% of issues will come from people being rough. Which is the whole point of this post in the first place.
Lets get this thread back on track. The OP has nothing to do with people being rough in their work, it was about using a device that has a high risk of causing issues over extended periods of time, it is that simple. I started this thread as a warning to members new and old the risks they may face years down the track with 'scotchblocks', or whatever they are called, it was actually the only one I had ever used on my Patrol, I can't actually remember why I used it. Now just to refresh your memory as to what 'really' happened, around 10 years ago I picked up power from an ign source via a small 'scotchblock' to power a set of LED daytime running lights, the join was taped and secured in a flex tube. 10 years later the LED DTRL were faltering. I started my troubleshooting at the DTRL and worked backwards testing all connections, it wasn't until I got to the small 'scotchblock' power pick up point that I found the 'blade' had corroded as my picture showed, this caused a low power flow resulting in only 2 of the 5 LED'S in each light powering up. Now all works fine again.

This forum has many members with varying abilities, and we don't know the experience or abilities of many of them, so we need to keep them in mind over and above the ones like you that know absolutely everything. As a mechanical engineer I have over 50 years experience in a few fields, indeed I was the maintenance manager at one large factory where even the electrical team answered to me and they hated that, a mechanical guy being their boss WTF, but the managers of the multinational company thought I was up to the job.

So, this thread is not about which is the best way to connect wires (although I prefer to use quality crimps and crimpers over soldering of joints), I keep soldering for the electrical controllers I build. This thread is simply a warning of what can happen over time should a member use them.
 

·
Registered
2005 TD42Ti ute
Joined
·
381 Posts
Lets get this thread back on track. The OP has nothing to do with people being rough in their work, it was about using a device that has a high risk of causing issues over extended periods of time, it is that simple. I started this thread as a warning to members new and old the risks they may face years down the track with 'scotchblocks', or whatever they are called, it was actually the only one I had ever used on my Patrol, I can't actually remember why I used it. Now just to refresh your memory as to what 'really' happened, around 10 years ago I picked up power from an ign source via a small 'scotchblock' to power a set of LED daytime running lights, the join was taped and secured in a flex tube. 10 years later the LED DTRL were faltering. I started my troubleshooting at the DTRL and worked backwards testing all connections, it wasn't until I got to the small 'scotchblock' power pick up point that I found the 'blade' had corroded as my picture showed, this caused a low power flow resulting in only 2 of the 5 LED'S in each light powering up. Now all works fine again.

This forum has many members with varying abilities, and we don't know the experience or abilities of many of them, so we need to keep them in mind over and above the ones like you that know absolutely everything. As a mechanical engineer I have over 50 years experience in a few fields, indeed I was the maintenance manager at one large factory where even the electrical team answered to me and they hated that, a mechanical guy being their boss WTF, but the managers of the multinational company thought I was up to the job.

So, this thread is not about which is the best way to connect wires (although I prefer to use quality crimps and crimpers over soldering of joints), I keep soldering for the electrical controllers I build. This thread is simply a warning of what can happen over time should a member use them.
It's 100% fine to challenge ideas and thoughts. Especially if the ideas you challenge them with have merit to them. As some of u know I'm an electrician and currently working full time as one again. Blah blah blah. Doesn't mean I know everything about it. As I said above they give you about 5 mins of training at tafe about how to solder properly.

Soldering properly however is not incredibly difficult it just has to be done the right way. Members shouldn't shy away from it, they should seek to learn to do it right and use appropriate methods in relative situations.

Without a challenge of an idea a discussion will not happen, Don't take anything personally. I'm not saying your rough as such I'm more so saying scotches are rough. We have all had to quickly get something finished 5 mins before a trip, then perhaps forgot about it till it told us later :ROFLMAO: and 10 years isn't a bad run out of those lol.

Could you also post a pic of how the wiring is arranged now so we can have a look at the crimp vs the scotchie and how it's sealed from ingress?
 

·
Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
Joined
·
54,899 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
It's 100% fine to challenge ideas and thoughts. Especially if the ideas you challenge them with have merit to them. As some of u know I'm an electrician and currently working full time as one again. Blah blah blah. Doesn't mean I know everything about it. As I said above they give you about 5 mins of training at tafe about how to solder properly.

Soldering properly however is not incredibly difficult it just has to be done the right way. Members shouldn't shy away from it, they should seek to learn to do it right and use appropriate methods in relative situations.

Without a challenge of an idea a discussion will not happen, Don't take anything personally. I'm not saying your rough as such I'm more so saying scotches are rough. We have all had to quickly get something finished 5 mins before a trip, then perhaps forgot about it till it told us later :ROFLMAO: and 10 years isn't a bad run out of those lol.

Could you also post a pic of how the wiring is arranged now so we can have a look at the crimp vs the scotchie and how it's sealed from ingress?
No, it is all wrapped up and packed into the loom. I do have some idea about soldering I've built many control units over my life and soldering on and off for well over 50 years, I had some great tradesmen as my mentors when I was an apprentice, including Sheeties who soldered moulds most of their working day in the first 15 years of my trade. Forget TAFE, that is only a snapshot of basics to be used out in the wide world where you really learn your 'trade'.

What are the discussion challenges? 'Scotchblocks' can give users massive grief, warning others of the potential dangers is what this thread was designed to do and hence made a sticky, it was never meant to be a how to on various connection methods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
495 Posts
I believe the discussion of crimps, solder, and other joining methods is complimentary to the original topic of scotch-locks.
If the purpose of the thread was to warn people about the dangers and problems of scotch-locks, then the right approach is to suggest a better alternative.
From what I read, we have discussed why scotch locks fail, how they fail, and what means of wire joining provides a better, more durable result.

I am thankful for the members who posted their views on crimp joints, because It has opened my attitude to their value.
 

·
Administrator
Y2KGUII ZD Wgn
Joined
·
54,899 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I believe the discussion of crimps, solder, and other joining methods is complimentary to the original topic of scotch-locks.
If the purpose of the thread was to warn people about the dangers and problems of scotch-locks, then the right approach is to suggest a better alternative.
From what I read, we have discussed why scotch locks fail, how they fail, and what means of wire joining provides a better, more durable result.

I am thankful for the members who posted their views on crimp joints, because It has opened my attitude to their value.
Yes that's fine, but other inferences were being made, sidetracked, but as indicated my original intention was to warn members of the dangers of the 'scotchblocks' if they didn't know, I had inadvertently used one many years ago and it caught me out.
 
21 - 35 of 35 Posts
Top