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Penrite 20/60 oil.

9.2K views 22 replies 14 participants last post by  ITS A FORD NOT A NISSAN  
#1 ·
Has anybody used this oil? I have an RB30 dual fuel and am off to hot northern climes and loaded to the gunnels and towing (again). My thought is that it might be better in the heat because of the higher viscosity. I normally run 20/50. Its a relatively expensive oil.
 
#3 ·
go for it if you want your fuel economy to suffer.
Thicker oil is a bandaid solution.
If the 20w50 is getting that hot that it becomes to thin, you need an oil cooler.

i've never had any of my customers have oil pressure problems with 20w50 that can be blamed on northern heat.
 
#4 ·
Never had a problem with the 20/50 that I know of. I normally run an oil that is gas compatible. Coolant temperatures are usually on the low side. Run cooler plugs etc.etc. Just thought that there would be potentially less oil breakdown with the higher viscosity rating. The Penrite is rated for gas.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Ive been using Castrol Magnatec 10w-40 which is a semi synthetic , engine has done 225thou km , i have no issues with oil pressure drop or oil consumption or oil thining problems .
 
#8 ·
patrol_brad said:
if only you knew what you were talking about.
you'd realize how stupid that comment was.
with all the other brands of oils i have tested Penrite is the only one that holds more pressure on the gauge a few extra notches where the others drop.Who are you calling stupid ********.
 
#9 ·
NissanConvert said:
with all the other brands of oils i have tested Penrite is the only one that holds more pressure on the gauge a few extra notches where the others drop.Who are you calling stupid ********.

you for thinking thicker oil making more pressure some how makes it better.

penright and gulfwestern make a 25w70 that will hold pressure even more. doesn't make it better.

comments like your only prove how little you really about the subject
 
#13 ·
dansedgli said:
Why waste your time replying at all then?

I'd like to know the reasons too.

because i had nothing better to do.

for every one person that could actually give a good answer, there are 40 other people ready and waiting to post about how they used xxx oil and it was great because it picked up oil pressure.
Yet what they don't know is there engine needs ZDDP in the oil to protect the cam. or they've just lost fuel economy because the oil pump now has to work harder to pump the oil, most of which is now being pumped straight out of the pressure bypass straight in to the sump.

Or that the oil has piss poor shear strength, so every time you bring the revs up the oil breaks down and you wear the bearings or scuff pistons.

How many of you running thick penrite have actually put a good pressure gauge on the engine and TESTED the oil pressure?

if the oil pressure is within spec with the thinner oil, why the hell would you waste money and fuel and risk damage to your engine by using an oil that is far to thick.

How many of you have stripped engines after years of use running these oils?

I've seen an engine with over 300 000km using 15w40 Valvoline XLD (cheap yet very good oil, do a search on oil testing, this oil out performed supposed industry leaders) that when stripped showed almost zero bore wear and NO crank journal wear. very minor scuff onthe pistons. the engine was given rings and bearings, the crank grinder didn't see a reason to touch the crank at all.


I've also had the pleasure :rolleyes: of stripping and rebuilding engines that have been treated to the wrong oil. glazed bores massive bore tapper, scored cranks, pistons that feel like cheese graters.
But the customer swore he used the good stuff, nice and thick too.


like i said befor, if you are that keen to learn, a 4X4 forum is not that place to do it. use google and spend a few days looking, It'll take that long to get through it all.
 
#14 ·
:sleep:
patrol_brad said:
because i had nothing better to do.

for every one person that could actually give a good answer, there are 40 other people ready and waiting to post about how they used xxx oil and it was great because it picked up oil pressure.
Yet what they don't know is there engine needs ZDDP in the oil to protect the cam. or they've just lost fuel economy because the oil pump now has to work harder to pump the oil, most of which is now being pumped straight out of the pressure bypass straight in to the sump.

Or that the oil has piss poor shear strength, so every time you bring the revs up the oil breaks down and you wear the bearings or scuff pistons.

How many of you running thick penrite have actually put a good pressure gauge on the engine and TESTED the oil pressure?

if the oil pressure is within spec with the thinner oil, why the hell would you waste money and fuel and risk damage to your engine by using an oil that is far to thick.

How many of you have stripped engines after years of use running these oils?

I've seen an engine with over 300 000km using 15w40 Valvoline XLD (cheap yet very good oil, do a search on oil testing, this oil out performed supposed industry leaders) that when stripped showed almost zero bore wear and NO crank journal wear. very minor scuff onthe pistons. the engine was given rings and bearings, the crank grinder didn't see a reason to touch the crank at all.


I've also had the pleasure :rolleyes: of stripping and rebuilding engines that have been treated to the wrong oil. glazed bores massive bore tapper, scored cranks, pistons that feel like cheese graters.
But the customer swore he used the good stuff, nice and thick too.


like i said befor, if you are that keen to learn, a 4X4 forum is not that place to do it. use google and spend a few days looking, It'll take that long to get through it all.
:sleep:
 
#15 ·
Penrite

Mate, i don`t pretend to know why the Earth rotates in the direction it does but i do know that this is the oil that i run in my Rb30 straight lpg turbo Patrol for over 100000 ks with out a problem, it now has over 300000ks on the clock and doesn`t seem like failing anytime soon.......
 
#17 ·
Entertaining thread, would vote +5 if i could haha.

seriously though, understanding oil is important if you're going to go out of spec and run thicker oils. I cant say i know everything about the topic, but having torn down a few engines in my time and I have seen what paths the oil has to flow through to get to where its needed. A thicker oil risks starving the area's that are fed from narrower galleys and squirters - after seeing the cam squirters in one engine for example i understood why you'd run a 5w-40 or even 5w-30 oil in them. This is something the Nissan engineers who designed the engine would of given a fair bit of consideration to, after all they pick how much restriction the squirters have and so on, so when they picked an oil grade they would of had a good reason to.

So to be direct about oil pressure - the oil system will have an operating volume, an amount of oil that must be getting places every second to keep everything lubed up. This volume increases with engine speed as you wash more oil off the faster things are moving. Luckily the pump increases speed with the engine and raises the volume of oil being delivered to the galleys. So what's oil pressure measuring? The resistance the oil is having leaving the galleys and getting to where its needed. Obviously in any system resistance exists and having some pressure is a good sign oil is flowing. Too high a pressure could mean you have blocked squirters though, for example, and too little could mean too low a viscosity oil thats just escaping out the biggest openings in the oil system and not getting everywhere.

A proper Nissan service manual will give you the rating for too high and too low, and they are to be checked when the engine's warm - after all the oil rating is measured at an oil temp of 100C not 20C. The manual will give you the values to check at idle and at a certain RPM, to confirm the oil is within spec and the pump is working. Too low and oil starvation is the problem. Too high and you could have blocked something, and if you havent blocked something it means you have a backing up of oil in the galleys higher than Nissans rating, pushing the oil pump harder than it was designed to be.

That might not be a problem, you might not take it anywhere near redline so the pump may not exceed its max ratings (after all higher rpm = more oil = more pressure). Thicker oil obviously isnt leaving the differrent openings in the oil system in the same amounts, else it wouldnt drive up the pressure, so you still have interestingly enough the oil starvation issues. Do you really think thicker oil comes out of a squirter the same way a thinner oil does?

anyway, i wont go into glazing and temps and clearances just yet. I figured trying to explain why oil pressure goes up in the first place might be more helpful than technical terms about what oils can and cant do. If you really do have issues with the oil thinning out too much on a good brand oil and its temp related, how hot are you getting? oil viscosity is measured at 100C and i wouldnt run my engine much past 130C oil temp, maybe you need a oil temp gauge?

Mean time i'll stick to my 15w-40, cant say i have any need at all for a SAE60 oil.
 
#18 ·
There is no way I'd run 60 grade oil in a good motor it would only make it work harder. Maybe if it had badly worn rings and you wanted to get a little extra life out of it, maybe. I'll stick to the hand book recommendations as they designed the engine and they should know full stop.
 
#19 ·
Thanks everybody for your opinions;) I have pretty much run 20/50 oil in this motor since new. It has been rebuilt and only has about 70,000ks on it and is tight as a drum. I suppose my fundamental question was really regarding shear strength protection at sustained high temperatures under load. I do my oil changes at 5000ks anyway which should go a long way to prevent the oil wearing out despite how clean it looks. As it is on gas the combustion temperatures do run higher and I think that intrinsically these motors do run hotter despite what the coolant temperature guage says. Maybe I'll put an oil temperature guage on to monitor it. I did 15000ks in three months last year including the Kimberley and had all the drivetrain oils changed when I got back, having replaced them before I left. The mechanic said that the rear diff oil was very close to its useby date.
 
#20 ·
the facts on oil viscosity

Oil viscosity recommendations are based purely on ambient (air) temperature. The SAE recommendations are:

- SAE40w base is recommended above 30C
- SAE30w base can be used 0-43C

Any base oil below SAE25w is totally unsuitable for Australian conditions.

The only reason to use a thinner oil is to allow easier starting in extremely cold conditions (below -20C) that never occur in Australia.

Manufacturers often recommend low viscosity (eg 5w-40) oils because they give a very slight improvement in fuel economy under test conditions (but not in the real world). The downside is that low viscosity oil massively increases engine wear. However because the engine dies long after the warranty expires the manufacturers don't care.

Light aircraft normally use SAE60 monograde oil.

If the engine will start easily the oil isn't too viscous.

The best way to make your engine last is to buy inexpensive high viscosity mineral oil and replace it (and the filter) every 5000km rather than expensive synthetic oil.
 
#21 ·
Definition of viscosity

Most people think that viscosity is how thick or thin the oil is, however the definition for viscosity is Resistance to Flow! This means that a higher viscosity oil (eg 20W60) would have a higher resistance to flow than a lower viscosity oil (eg. 20W50). It therefore follows that a higher viscosity oil would require a higher pressure than the lower viscosity oil for the same volume of oil to flow in the lube circuit!

High oil pressure is not always good (same a high blood pressure). If you have very high oil pressure in the filters (TD 42 with full flow filters), the ball valves would open and send un-filtered oil to the bearings! Also, if you have very high oil pressure after the filters, the pressure relief valve would open and dump the oil in the sump! So it is possible to have very high oil pressure and the bearings could still seize from lack of lubrication! Recommendation: use the OEM recommended viscosity for your climatic conditions. :rolleyes:
 
#22 ·
Those poor engines running 50 and 60, trying to squeeze those oils past soft metal bearing clearances - in-situ heat skyrockets, less actual oil trying to protect the softmetal surfaces due the ratio of real oil to good additives to yucky ones - viscosity improver.

The first number is almost worthy of forgetting it's there, why bother! the number is only represnative at an oil temperature of 0deg c, and interestingly at temperatures higher than that the 5 oil can and does depending on brand be thicker than the 10 oil at 20deg......

If you own a patrol ...any of them you would need a dodgee marketing degree to put anything other than a 15w 40 in it...until so flogged out it is blowing blue smoke then move up...no way no how does 20% better oil pressure protect the engine better than the right oil and a good oil.

People spend a lot of time and money actively working toward owning a tired engine long before it should have been.
 
#23 ·
i run a 20/60 diesel oil in mine but i will probly change back to 15/40 now i have put in a cooler thermostat , or i will change the thermostat to run hotter , either or , i was running a 91 deg thermostat and found the 15/40 was too thin and oil consumption went up , oil pressure went down so i went 20/60 and it worked really well giving good fuel economy and normal oil pressure
but since fitting the cooler thermostat i noticed the oil pressure sitting higher and im guessing this may impact fuel economy , ill give it 5000 ks and see how the fuel consumption goes , then i decide whether to change the thermostat to run hotter or run a thinner oil , leaning towards a hotter thermostat as when i did that last time it improved my economy quite a bit