[JFF45]

Some more pics..

To fit a 450x300x76mm IC over the throttle body, you need to relocate the IACV because the electrical connector sits too high.

Thanks to JoseM for this idea and for convincing me (with pics) that a 76mm thick IC will fit over the throttle body.

As a temporary measure (the aim was to always keep the vehicle driveable while doing these secondary modifications) I brazed some copper pipe & elbows to use the original air hose.

This is the elbow I welded up to change the orientation. 25mm holes, same as in the inlet manifold.

 

[JoseM]

Some more pics..

To fit a 450x300x76mm IC over the throttle body, you need to relocate the IACV because the electrical connector sits too high.

As a temporary measure (the aim was to always keep the vehicle driveable while doing these secondary modifications) I brazed some copper pipe & elbows to use the original air hose.

Real trucks are built not bought!:bananaro: I like the tubbing :lol:

 

[DieselTuner]

No worries, keen to hear any advice especially from people in the business. So whats the big issue with the megasuirt? Obviously scottmeister has had some success with it.
Not saying your wrong just curious as to why the others are better?
On turbo's, holset have been in the game for a long time and have some good feed back?
Not keen on paying near $1000 for a used xr6 turbo.

Ive had multiple issues with them on various cars.
Things that would be ok for your average home DIY'er with knowledge from another persons build to work their way through the issues, but in a workshop environment its infuriating quoting a ecu package up and spending 4 days sorting issues that wouldnt be there with a decent management system anyway.

Its hard to put a figure on what makes an ecu exception or crap. Alot of different things like uploading and downloading times, bugs, fuel and timing algorithms used, what kind of compensation tables are available, how adjustable all the tables are like using different X and Y axis inputs.

When the megasquirt was running, I would have put it between an ems and microtech if I was rating it.
At all other times it was an annoyance getting it to read crank signals properly and communicate with laptops reliably etc..

 

[scottmeister]

Ive had multiple issues with them on various cars.
Things that would be ok for your average home DIY'er with knowledge from another persons build to work their way through the issues, but in a workshop environment its infuriating quoting a ecu package up and spending 4 days sorting issues that wouldnt be there with a decent management system anyway.

Its hard to put a figure on what makes an ecu exception or crap. Alot of different things like uploading and downloading times, bugs, fuel and timing algorithms used, what kind of compensation tables are available, how adjustable all the tables are like using different X and Y axis inputs.

When the megasquirt was running, I would have put it between an ems and microtech if I was rating it.
At all other times it was an annoyance getting it to read crank signals properly and communicate with laptops reliably etc..

Since you've clearly never used a MS3, perhaps you should head over to the MSExtra or DIYEFI forums to understand just what makes MS3 so popular, rather than just suggesting MoTeC/Link ($$$$) to everybody.

 

[DieselTuner]

Since you've clearly never used a MS3, perhaps you should head over to the MSExtra or DIYEFI forums to understand just what makes MS3 so popular, rather than just suggesting MoTeC/Link ($$$$) to everybody.

Im interested to hear where and how you get the info that its popular?
Popular with DIYers that can spend more time ironing out bugs than actually driving their cars you mean?
Or Popular with people that want to spend exorbitant amounts paying someone else to sort out the problems if they are not savvy enough to DIY it?

I mean I have had a job tuning full time both diesel and petrol for over 10 years now and Ive never come across more than a handful of people that wanted to waste their time dabbling with MS stuff.
Most of them do it in their own time, on the street instead of using a dyno and an experienced tuner. They then take the car it to have the tune fixed or engine repaired due to not knowing what they are doing. And thats about the first alot of tuners ever hear about the DIY type ecu's like this.

You will never find this kind of stuff in even the most entry level motorsport. And I class midrange motorsport as having lower ecu requirements than a daily driven street car.

Feel free to continue telling me that ive never worked with one or have any idea what im talking about, it gave me a laugh :-D

 

[scottmeister]

I have followed scotts build. Thats why I want to go with the megasuirt ems. Scotts is a pretty high horsepower setup too which now runs e85. Hoping my setup will be a little less costly.
Besides that there are a few people who have done it all with slightly different approach.

I wouldn't say my setup was any more costly than the minimum required to do the job with correctly - in my mind, anyway.Also, it may seem complex and expensive to run E85 but really it was at a cost of only a $150 sensor - everything else was already compatible and the ECU is sufficiently capable.

Yes, everyone has a different approach. You could use a $500 ebay turbo, used XR6 turbo $1000 or a brand new turbo $2500. Intercooler or no intercooler. New conrods or not. It's all up to you. Ultimately you need to be realistic with your budget and don't be too optimistic - there's always a little knick-knack or thingamabob you need to find/buy/modify/fabricate if you really want the setup to be spot-on.

 

[Grm]

I wouldn't say my setup was any more costly than the minimum required to do the job with correctly - in my mind, anyway.Also, it may seem complex and expensive to run E85 but really it was at a cost of only a $150 sensor - everything else was already compatible and the ECU is sufficiently capable.

Yes, everyone has a different approach. You could use a $500 ebay turbo, used XR6 turbo $1000 or a brand new turbo $2500. Intercooler or no intercooler. New conrods or not. It's all up to you. Ultimately you need to be realistic with your budget and don't be too optimistic - there's always a little knick-knack or thingamabob you need to find/buy/modify/fabricate if you really want the setup to be spot-on.

Was under the impression (not from you) that e85 required fuel pump to be rated for e85, larger fuel lines etc?

I'm lucky enough to be able to afford to do the conversion I just don't want to blow all my cash on it.

 

[DieselTuner]

Was under the impression (not from you) that e85 required fuel pump to be rated for e85, larger fuel lines etc?

I'm lucky enough to be able to afford to do the conversion I just don't want to blow all my cash on it.

Its the injectors mainly that need to be up to the task. Most fuel pumps and lines have enough in the tank to allow for the increase.

You simply need the system to be about 30% bigger than what it would need for the same power on pump fuel.

 

[scottmeister]

Im interested to hear where and how you get the info that its popular?
Popular with DIYers that can spend more time ironing out bugs than actually driving their cars you mean?
Or Popular with people that want to spend exorbitant amounts paying someone else to sort out the problems if they are not savvy enough to DIY it?

I mean I have had a job tuning full time both diesel and petrol for over 10 years now and Ive never come across more than a handful of people that wanted to waste their time dabbling with MS stuff.
Most of them do it in their own time, on the street instead of using a dyno and an experienced tuner. They then take the car it to have the tune fixed or engine repaired due to not knowing what they are doing. And thats about the first alot of tuners ever hear about the DIY type ecu's like this.

You will never find this kind of stuff in even the most entry level motorsport. And I class midrange motorsport as having lower ecu requirements than a daily driven street car.

Feel free to continue telling me that ive never worked with one or have any idea what im talking about, it gave me a laugh :-D

:lol: Over 10 years of tuning and that's your argument?

Meanwhile in the rest of the world, DIY EFI, and MS3, is popular with people who quite comfortably understand ECUs and the requirements thereof.

 

[scottmeister]

Was under the impression (not from you) that e85 required fuel pump to be rated for e85, larger fuel lines etc?

I'm lucky enough to be able to afford to do the conversion I just don't want to blow all my cash on it.

Yes the pump/injectors and fuel reg need to be rated for E85, and sized for additional flow - but most aftermarket ones are anyway these days. Also for long term use you'd need to make sure the rubber fuel hoses are the latest SAE 30R9 EFI hose which means it is ethanol rated (regular EFI hose is OK but over time it can crack especially at bends). The hose isn't much more expensive but you won't find it at SuperCheap and the like.

 

[DieselTuner]

All you have done is tell me they are good and I am bad for saying otherwise.........
Fairly common for people to have this attitude with me because they just dont know what to say when someone with experience speaks up and questions the way they have gone about something,especially when it is the only product they have used.

Ive read the specs, ive tuned with them and yeah they are pretty average. A little better than microtech for sure, but still not even up to the level of EMS.

Not sure why you think what is happeneing in Australia doesnt represent what people on this forum want? Do the guys asking questions here want what all the yanks or europeans use? What if they have a problem? they can wait until after 5pm when the yanks are awake to hopefully wait for an email and response or spend the money making expensive overseas phone calls, Probably to be told to scour through trillions of forums for an answer to their obscure problem that they have never seen before?

Like I said earlier, there is alot of aspects of any ecu that you rate when giving it a good or bad review. Unfortunately this particular brand has alot of things going against it.

 

[scottmeister]

especially when it is the only product they have used.

Who said that? I sure didn't.

Ive read the specs, ive tuned with them and yeah they are pretty average. A little better than microtech for sure, but still not even up to the level of EMS.

No worries; I disagree.

Not sure why you think what is happeneing in Australia doesnt represent what people on this forum want? Do the guys asking questions here want what all the yanks or europeans use? What if they have a problem? they can wait until after 5pm when the yanks are awake to hopefully wait for an email and response or spend the money making expensive overseas phone calls, Probably to be told to scour through trillions of forums for an answer to their obscure problem that they have never seen before?

Scaremongering much?

Like I said earlier, there is alot of aspects of any ecu that you rate when giving it a good or bad review. Unfortunately this particular brand has alot of things going against it.

Yeah, people who are driven by billable dyno hours and would prefer to sell an expensive ECU solution in order to maximise profit. Sound familiar?

 

[bambill]

Dieseltuner, get over yourself and leave the guys be.
Your just being annoying.

 

[DieselTuner]

Who said that? I sure didn't.



No worries; I disagree.

Scaremongering much?



Yeah, people who are driven by billable dyno hours and would prefer to sell an expensive ECU solution in order to maximise profit. Sound familiar?

Not really... If you were using billable dyno hours as a measure I would recommend Megasquirt to everybody. It would take 5x longer to setup and tune than an autronic for example and the shop suppliying the ecu would make alot more mark up on the actual product.

Scaremongering people into buying a different product? Then recommending 5 different products, none that I have any vested interest in.... makes sense.

Chances are if you dont like what Ive got to say and are so avid about defending the product you like with little to no reasoning behind it, then you are basically like a bible salesman.

 

[scottmeister]

To avoid derailing GRMs thread any further this is my final comment on ECUs.

Not really... If you were using billable dyno hours as a measure I would recommend Megasquirt to everybody. It would take 5x longer to setup and tune than an autronic for example and the shop suppliying the ecu would make alot more mark up on the actual product.

But a MS3 wouldn't take 5x longer to setup and tune. You're quite simply talking crap.

Scaremongering people into buying a different product? Then recommending 5 different products, none that I have any vested interest in.... makes sense.

No, scaremongering people that they need to buy a product with local phone support. The support from some reputable ECU manufacturers can range from excellent to terrible/non-existent. Support for MS3 is thousands of people across the world who are happy to share their knowledge for free.

Chances are if you dont like what Ive got to say and are so avid about defending the product you like with little to no reasoning behind it, then you are basically like a bible salesman.

You don't seem to take well to reason - I've given many reasons why MS3 is excellent value for money previously - you just quote problem occurrences which you have yet to clarify are either recent or actually Megasquirt 3 related (which is certainly superior to previous MS versions, I agree wholeheartedly). I'm hardly a bible salesman and I invite anybody to cruise onto the multitude of EFI related forums and get reading. I have no vested interests, and couldn't give a rats what ECU people buy - I'm just trying to make sure the facts are out there.

 

[DieselTuner]

I guess if people have the desire to learn and practice what they could potentially learn of other internet users when it comes to fitting and tuning an ecu, it might actually save them money.

It could also cost them money if they dont get it right, but that seems like a side thought to trying to save money in the initial outlay of their purchase.

Unfortunately a common occurrence that I have encountered for at least 10 years. Not only with tuning but all kinds of mechanical mods/repairs etc...
Some people pick certain things up exceptionally well, others cannot grasp the most basic fundamentals of the same principal.

All I recommend for the people not putting in those limitless hours to learning the system they will be using is to get a system that the tuner you end up tuning is comfortable with and more importantly has had good experiences with.

The reason MS is near enough to unused around australia is because there is so many better options for equivelant money. And far superior options for not alot of extra money.

 

[patrolpez]

Just off topic a bit

I think Scottmeister and Diesel Tuner should start a TV show together , with there combined knowledge and banter its sure to rate !!

You guys are a wealth of knowledge and its great to have you guys aboard

 

[JFF45]

It's a shame the thread is deteriorating into a pi$$ing contest..

Anway, to finish up on the TMIC choices I made, here a couple more pics of the scoop that goes with it.
This is the Ebay $115 fibreglass Navara style that I thought covered the IC as much as needed.

I painted it myself with rattle cans (budget install remember) and fitted it myself. I think it looks Ok for a 13 year old car..

Thanks Grm for letting me use your thread in the meantime. I'll start my own shortly..

 

[JFF45]

Double post..

 

[Grm]

It's a shame the thread is deteriorating into a pi$$ing contest..

Anway, to finish up on the TMIC choices I made, here a couple more pics of the scoop that goes with it.
This is the Ebay $115 fibreglass Navara style that I thought covered the IC as much as needed.

I painted it myself with rattle cans (budget install remember) and fitted it myself. I think it looks Ok for a 13 year old car..

Thanks Grm for letting me use your thread in the meantime. I'll start my own shortly..

No problem JFF45, I've just started a new job which is a 12hr day so I probably won't be adding much until I get some time. So post away. The scoop looks great! I'm hoping to get a slightly bigger one, but need to watch the ribs underneath.