[Grm]

1.05 in T4 is equivelant to like 1.32 in T3.

So yeah it will be pretty big and laggy. A .86 rear with a big wastegate works really well on the 4.5L patrol and xr6 turbo.

At what rpm could I expect the T4 with 1.05 housing to kick in?

What size is standard xr6 t3 unit? They aren't 1.06 are they?

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[t bone]

GRM..


Welcome to the turboTB45 club buddy.

Its been a while since ive popped past the forum, but im just winding up my little number and really need to do something about a build thread. (JFF45 has some great ideas, and scott build thread, well- whilst reading it i thought i was there with him it was that detailed.)

I lashed out and got the AXT kit. As others have said, i wont be doing that again. Out of the kit, i did get a very nice and neat manifold thou, plus the dump pipe & Garret T3/T4 hybrid. (keep in mind im a sparky, so as for pitch angles and such--gawd knows) I installed it all at home, then disconnected the actuator and had a very slow 450km drive to the city to a shop that had a dyno for its first tune. I installed a WOLF V550 ecu and the only real issue i've had is my AC compressor wont engage. (winter time and havent been assed to troubleshoot too much)
Intake temps are thru the ROOF (up to 95 d C) without an intercooler. simple as that. even with the tune, and having it over-fueling to try and bring the temps down. it will still get up to 750d (C) (EGT) in the middle of the night overtaking a road train. I havent dared to take it off road and really make it work.

I've opted for a water to air intercooler which is now installed, but at the sacrifice of my winch assembly. (intentions to fab up a front "reece" style hitch, and have the winch live in the rear draws in a craddle and just plug into an anderson plug, front or rear when required.

hmmm, My standard fuel pump has no drama's (at this stage) but my standard injectors took a dump the first time it went on the dyno. Ended up changing them out to deatchwerks 740cc's (at scotts recomendation if i remember right--thanks man)

Started off with a 3inch exhaust system with 1 muffler to start :-/ i didnt even make it home from the shop & i turned around. now have 2 mufflers and a 10 inch hotdog up the back and its still like a truck, just with the popple & crack you would expect from a P plater's V6 commy. (we've all been there) Im hoping that now i have thie intercooler up and running, we can tune her properly and stop the crakle from running too rich thou.

 

[Grm]

GRM..


Welcome to the turboTB45 club buddy.

Its been a while since ive popped past the forum, but im just winding up my little number and really need to do something about a build thread. (JFF45 has some great ideas, and scott build thread, well- whilst reading it i thought i was there with him it was that detailed.)

I lashed out and got the AXT kit. As others have said, i wont be doing that again. Out of the kit, i did get a very nice and neat manifold thou, plus the dump pipe & Garret T3/T4 hybrid. (keep in mind im a sparky, so as for pitch angles and such--gawd knows) I installed it all at home, then disconnected the actuator and had a very slow 450km drive to the city to a shop that had a dyno for its first tune. I installed a WOLF V550 ecu and the only real issue i've had is my AC compressor wont engage. (winter time and havent been assed to troubleshoot too much)
Intake temps are thru the ROOF (up to 95 d C) without an intercooler. simple as that. even with the tune, and having it over-fueling to try and bring the temps down. it will still get up to 750d (C) (EGT) in the middle of the night overtaking a road train. I havent dared to take it off road and really make it work.

I've opted for a water to air intercooler which is now installed, but at the sacrifice of my winch assembly. (intentions to fab up a front "reece" style hitch, and have the winch live in the rear draws in a craddle and just plug into an anderson plug, front or rear when required.

hmmm, My standard fuel pump has no drama's (at this stage) but my standard injectors took a dump the first time it went on the dyno. Ended up changing them out to deatchwerks 740cc's (at scotts recomendation if i remember right--thanks man)

Started off with a 3inch exhaust system with 1 muffler to start :-/ i didnt even make it home from the shop & i turned around. now have 2 mufflers and a 10 inch hotdog up the back and its still like a truck, just with the popple & crack you would expect from a P plater's V6 commy. (we've all been there) Im hoping that now i have thie intercooler up and running, we can tune her properly and stop the crakle from running too rich thou.

Thanks tbone, so maybe just get the turbo, manifold, and lines from AXT? Most seem to be happy with that much of the kit?
Axt tell me the turbo will spool pretty much straight away. Is this true?

I too am leaning toward the wolf v550. I will bring up the a/c issue before I buy.

How much were the injectors if you don't mind me asking? There are 740cc sets on ebay atm. I think $750ish.


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[t bone]

Thanks tbone, so maybe just get the turbo, manifold, and lines from AXT? Most seem to be happy with that much of the kit?
Axt tell me the turbo will spool pretty much straight away. Is this true?

I too am leaning toward the wolf v550. I will bring up the a/c issue before I buy.

How much were the injectors if you don't mind me asking? There are 740cc sets on ebay atm. I think $750ish.


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If you do get the wolf, let me know and ill send ya a base fuel map to start upwith. They tell you they will do the same. But its excatlly that, and no more.. It will let ya start, but dont plan on moving anywhere.
When i was talking to them, they told me the same thing, and i aggree with what they say. its not a "rice car" all or nothing kind of boost, its real nice and even increse. (stay with me, i'm @ work atm, so im jumping all over the show) air intake. I had a standard black plastic intake on mine. First few runs on the dyno, that came off. i was told the restriction was way tooo much. I have now got a full 4" snorkle setup, running into a new airbox and "pod" style filter (plan on a sock over snorkle head when offroad) with the windows up and the wireless cranking, you can still hear that thing suck anywhere over about 1650 ish... (i think it was) You do notice a lot more power from there on up too.

injectors, no problem telling ya what they worth bud--- if i could remember.
i delt with a dude cannel dan @ N-1 AUTO Online Store... I sent out a heap of emails, and this fella offered the best help. $US735.00 was the magic number, and that was landed from the states to the perth workshop, with a 320lph pump also (ive got feeling the pump was about $US300 or so. Trying to find paperwork on it now for ya. payment was thru paypal, and tracking numbers and all that were spot on. The only thing was buddy doing the work in perth wasnt happy with the O ring seal, so we upped the size of the vitan O ring. he works in a subsea department, so we pressure tested everything and was good to go. I think they were originally ment for a skyline.

***see copy & paste infor from email****(Deatschwerks 740cc high impedance side feed injectors to suit a 93-98 RB25DET) the same injectors without any hassel. which you and i worked out to be the part number (6) 740cc Side Feed Injectors # 01J-00-0740-6. ******

Right--- Air con...
I THINK!!!!!.
i traced some drawing out, and with a few beers under my belt, and 2am before i flew back to the rig for a month away, it "seems" that the original ECU gives an input to the compressor clutch to engage. This is done by switching a negative. The wolf seems to sending a switched +12v signal down the line that is ment to be neg. Im going to go thru my drawing again for both bits of gear whilst out here with some of the electronic's guys to verafy thou. If it is, it could work out, jsut to change the switching method of that one coil to suit, then use the original positive for the compressor clutch relay to switch the relay that will be running my water pump for the water to air intercooler.

The above makes sence in my head, hopefully you can make sence of it too...

 

[JoseM]

So when looking out for a turbo what do you look for brand/size etc...
I really only want a low boost motor even though iam going to build a new motor built for a turbo.

It's really a matter of preference. In my case I wanted Garrett or nothing, just for the peace of mind. Besides I can just order them online from the States...

What you really want to look for in a turbo is one that is efficient enough for your setup and needs.

You can determine a turbo's efficiency for each application just by looking at it's turbo map.

Here's a link where you can get all the info you need to make an educated choice without going crazy and/or having to rely entirely on what somebody else tells you in a forum.

Compressor Maps | Turbobygarrett

So what sort/size would you recommend and are those cheaper cast manifolds any good...

I got one of those cheapper chinese cast manifolds. They work, but need a little modifying as per screw sizes, and as I showed you earlier O2 sensor. No big deal, nothing a half arse mahine shop can't solve for you for only a few bucks. In my case a got a low mount because of my Patrol being a LHD.

 

[Grm]

If you do get the wolf, let me know and ill send ya a base fuel map to start upwith. They tell you they will do the same. But its excatlly that, and no more.. It will let ya start, but dont plan on moving anywhere.
When i was talking to them, they told me the same thing, and i aggree with what they say. its not a "rice car" all or nothing kind of boost, its real nice and even increse. (stay with me, i'm @ work atm, so im jumping all over the show) air intake. I had a standard black plastic intake on mine. First few runs on the dyno, that came off. i was told the restriction was way tooo much. I have now got a full 4" snorkle setup, running into a new airbox and "pod" style filter (plan on a sock over snorkle head when offroad) with the windows up and the wireless cranking, you can still hear that thing suck anywhere over about 1650 ish... (i think it was) You do notice a lot more power from there on up too.

injectors, no problem telling ya what they worth bud--- if i could remember.
i delt with a dude cannel dan @ N-1 AUTO Online Store... I sent out a heap of emails, and this fella offered the best help. $US735.00 was the magic number, and that was landed from the states to the perth workshop, with a 320lph pump also (ive got feeling the pump was about $US300 or so. Trying to find paperwork on it now for ya. payment was thru paypal, and tracking numbers and all that were spot on. The only thing was buddy doing the work in perth wasnt happy with the O ring seal, so we upped the size of the vitan O ring. he works in a subsea department, so we pressure tested everything and was good to go. I think they were originally ment for a skyline.

***see copy & paste infor from email****(Deatschwerks 740cc high impedance side feed injectors to suit a 93-98 RB25DET) the same injectors without any hassel. which you and i worked out to be the part number (6) 740cc Side Feed Injectors # 01J-00-0740-6. ******

Right--- Air con...
I THINK!!!!!.
i traced some drawing out, and with a few beers under my belt, and 2am before i flew back to the rig for a month away, it "seems" that the original ECU gives an input to the compressor clutch to engage. This is done by switching a negative. The wolf seems to sending a switched +12v signal down the line that is ment to be neg. Im going to go thru my drawing again for both bits of gear whilst out here with some of the electronic's guys to verafy thou. If it is, it could work out, jsut to change the switching method of that one coil to suit, then use the original positive for the compressor clutch relay to switch the relay that will be running my water pump for the water to air intercooler.

The above makes sence in my head, hopefully you can make sence of it too...

A copy of the base tune would be fantastic.. Is the base tune you have set for some low boost?

You wouldn't know a part number for the O ring would you? See if I can order them with the right one.

I was going to get an AEM in tank punp, 320lph cost a bit over $100.

Ic I have not decided on yet. Whatever works well and costs less.

Thanks for all the info!


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[JFF45]

If the Deutschwerks injectors are supplied for a Skyline fuel rail, there should be no need to change the O rings when fitting to a TB45E.
What you will need to watch is that the caps can be over tightened if you don't use 3mm spacers. I'll post a pic tomorrow to illustrate the issue.

If you're only planning a low boost install, 740cc could be way overkill. Original are only 270cc.
The 370cc from an RB25DET drop right in - still with the spacer issue I mentioned.
I bought 6 x 370cc Skyline injectors from Gumtree for $30. They'll be more than adequate for my needs.

You might also look at whether you really need a replacement ECU when a piggyback might be sufficient and won't have the issues of no A/C control, etc.
If I'm finally not happy with my Xede, I'll go the Megasquirt 3 as a replacement. I need to keep my ECU because of my auto trans as well.

 

[Grm]

The next round of the Brisbane Short Course will be held at Landcruiser Mountain Park 4-5th September.

Goid point JFF45 on injectors. But I will be replacing rods so might as well do it once if I get power hungry.
MS3 I would prefer but I do not want trial and error in this area. I can not tune it myself and if local tuners aren't familiar with it I'm stuck. Not to mention I don't get a lot of spare time anymore so installing it could be a pain..


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[t bone]

hmmm, kinda.. in a round about way. apparently there was a bit of an issue with the dude making the initial map, he mentioned that he struggled to get it to stap around the 7-8psi that i wanted my max set too. But in saying that, it also used to spool up, with the standard computer, and the wastegate actuator arm disconnected also. Im looking into my options of an externail gate to try and get a bit more control over it. This is my first turbo project, so its still a big learning curve for me.

Its a very good point that john makes about the spacers too!!! dont forget those babies. Honestly, the O ring this is a very good chance of us being over cautious. We both work offshore and he mainly does subsea gear. He was a bit anal about it sealing, and im not one to argue. But as mentioned above. others are running with no problems.

740cc was my choice, only cause i know what im like. I know once i get it running sweet, ill have the urge to get a bit more out of it. so jsut went right up there to stop doing it twice.

 

[DieselTuner]

As I said the internal gate on a gt35R is far to small for low boost.

There is a few upgrades you can get, larger swing valve and to port the housing out which helps significantly. Or to simply change the rear housing to an extranal gate.

What I normally do if the budget is tight is to upgrade the stock housing. Go to your nearest engine reconditioning shop and get a bag full of old exhaust valves of various sizes (or measure first and get the one closest to what you need).

Cut the stock valve out, and fit the new valve into the swing arm loosely. Mark with engineering blue the area the new valve covers, then attack the housing with a die grinder. Opening up both the wastegate hole, and improving the flow angles inside the housing to promote better flow into the wastegate area.

Once it is all opened up, you can weld a small washer in to fit the new valve or mushroom the head of it over to keep it in place. Either way the valve must be able to spin in place ie not be a permanent fixture to the swing arm.

 

[DieselTuner]

Here is some pics to describe the method.

Stock Valve Closed


Stock Valve Open


Old Valve vs New Valve


Old Valve vs New Valve


Giving the new valve the right profile


New Valve Closed


New Valve Opened

 

[DieselTuner]

On that particular car the boost spiraled from 15psi @ 5000rpm to 20psi at 7000rpm.

I was able to hold a steady 12psi through the rev range once I made these mods to the housing. So believe me, it might look fairly minor but the flow difference you achieve is very high. Especially if you profile the inside of the housing correctly.

 

[JFF45]

The left injector is a 370cc from an RB25DET. Note the 3mm plastic rim at the top that the 270cc from the TB45E on the right doesn't have.

This plastic rim will stop the cap from being screwed down 'metal to metal' as it does with a standard injector. It's likely to cause damage if you insist a bit.

It just needs 3mm spacers in there. I used 3mm high 5mm nuts like this:
It also prevents the rubber mounting block under the cap from being squashed.

You can also see the differences in thicknesses of the O rings between the 2 but the Skyline injectors fit into the TB45E fuel rail because the inside diameters of the fuel rail 'cups' are identical at the O ring level.

 

[JFF45]

As I said the internal gate on a gt35R is far to small for low boost.

There is a few upgrades you can get, larger swing valve and to port the housing out which helps significantly. Or to simply change the rear housing to an extranal gate.

What I normally do if the budget is tight is to upgrade the stock housing. Go to your nearest engine reconditioning shop and get a bag full of old exhaust valves of various sizes (or measure first and get the one closest to what you need).

Cut the stock valve out, and fit the new valve into the swing arm loosely. Mark with engineering blue the area the new valve covers, then attack the housing with a die grinder. Opening up both the wastegate hole, and improving the flow angles inside the housing to promote better flow into the wastegate area.

Once it is all opened up, you can weld a small washer in to fit the new valve or mushroom the head of it over to keep it in place. Either way the valve must be able to spin in place ie not be a permanent fixture to the swing arm.

You seemed to be having (and describing a remedy for) boost creep rather than a low boost issue here.
I understand that it's recommended to go to an external wastgate to better control low boost but the BA/BF XR6 turbos run 4.5 - 6 PSI standard with their internal wastegates and, in my research, I've read of several installs on TB45s that run up to 6 PSI without issue.

I understand that the choice of exhaust system also has quite an influence here.

 

[JFF45]

Good to see you jumping in, Shane, and adding your info to the mix.
I'm curious to know if you have any provisional power figures you could share.

 

[t bone]

Good to see you jumping in, Shane, and adding your info to the mix.
I'm curious to know if you have any provisional power figures you could share.

Yeap.. For sure mate.. If i've done this right... Im kinda hoping there will a pic below this somewhere...

As i said before thou, this is only very basic tune to gett me around the place. And its running rich as hell

 

[t bone]

wooo hooo

Its a good way to finish the day.. made it work the first time.. Are you proud of me john.. lol

 

[JFF45]

Of course.. It's just that it's too small to read

 

[t bone]

Of course.. It's just that it's too small to read

Bugger - - I knew it was too good to be true. Thats the only copy of the photo i have too. When i get home ill scan the printout, and hopefull will also have a few new ones from after the tune with the intercooler up and running.

 

[Grm]

Hey t bone, spoke to a guy who installs wolf ecu's and he said you can change the signal from pisitve to negative in the programing for the A/C.

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