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garrett turbo debate

11K views 26 replies 12 participants last post by  Da-medi8r  
#1 ·
hey everyone,
im currently running a gt2860rs on the td42t it comes on earlier and pulls well but not enough for my likings. so just started researching some garrett turbos so basically trying to track down peoples thoughts & experience on the following gtx2867 vs gt2871-48t or 56t listed below are the flow maps. im just starting to learning turbos so please be tolerant!!
is the gtx2867 going to more responsive? and flow more up top?? or am i reading the maps wrong? looking to run 18-20psi

http://www.gcg.com.au/AllImage/Products/Garrett Spec Sheets/gt2871rs_774147-31.jpg

http://www.gcg.com.au/AllImage/Products/Garrett Spec Sheets/gtx2876r_flowmap.jpg

please dont turn this into another garrett vs td05 debate i respect matts turbo, along the r&d he has put in and the results are awesome just looking at something different as i alreadt have a garrett setup & these would be a direct replacement.

please comment matt with your expertise, oldmav, bambil you know you want in on this subject :)

i will be interested in possibly doing a before & after run if i change to the turbos listed to show the difference

Thanks russell
 
#2 ·
hey everyone,
im currently running a gt2860rs on the td42t it comes on earlier and pulls well but not enough for my likings. so just started researching some garrett turbos so basically trying to track down peoples thoughts & experience on the following gtx2867 vs gt2871-48t or 56t listed below are the flow maps. im just starting to learning turbos so please be tolerant!!
is the gtx2867 going to more responsive? and flow more up top?? or am i reading the maps wrong? looking to run 18-20psi

http://www.gcg.com.au/AllImage/Products/Garrett Spec Sheets/gt2871rs_774147-31.jpg

http://www.gcg.com.au/AllImage/Products/Garrett Spec Sheets/gtx2876r_flowmap.jpg

please dont turn this into another garrett vs td05 debate i respect matts turbo, along the r&d he has put in and the results are awesome just looking at something different as i alreadt have a garrett setup & these would be a direct replacement.

please comment matt with your expertise, oldmav, bambil you know you want in on this subject :)

i will be interested in possibly doing a before & after run if i change to the turbos listed to show the difference

Thanks russell
So im guessing that you want it to pull a little higher in the RPM and maybe sacrifice a small amount down low??

The 2871 i wouldnt touch , to much comp wheel for the 28 turbine in my opinion but marty has had good success with his ....

As the 2863/7 is supposed to flow more at or above 18-20 psi then maybe that is the way to go . As you haven't mentioned any pump mods then i would assume that you are staying with the STD pump?

Be good to see if the 63 actually does anything over and above the 60 and is what your looking for.

MAtt
 
#3 ·
Thanks Matt
Yes I'm willing to sacrifice a little bottom end 300rpm or so for more mid range torque. Okay my setup is basic and at this stage not really wanting to go anywhere with the pump as it only has 10000kms since rebuilt. Happy to go front mount to yield better results.
Std pump
New injectors (30000kms)
Ase gt2860 .64 kit
Ase top mount and 2.5 piping
Barney's scoop
Facet lift pump
4.1 ratio on 35s
 
#9 ·
Which flow rate is your facet then?

My td42 had one, 32GHP @ 4.5psi, it was hopeless and couldnt keep fuel up to a na GQ and is lying in the corner of the shed where I flung it...
 
#8 ·
I'm at work still so don't have my book of notes, but.
If there was a Compressor housing option for a .50a/r cover for the 2860, that would be interesting.
It would squeeze the map and shift it to the right a bit but allow a higher P/R to be run if you wanted.
The smaller a/r would let you run higher boost but would improve the efficency of it at the same boost you are running now. Pretty sure thats how I mapped it out with the 71.
I have gone back to .6 cover on mine while I modify the .5 and it is not as good in the mid range once you are on boost or the top end.. There would be less than 100rpm in the boost response between them, although surge is a issue with the smaller housing, thats why it is off at the moment.
On a trip to melbourne last week the .6 cover hurt fuel economy by 1.5ltr per 100km, never thought it would do that but thats all that has changed.
A 52 trim 71mm compressor with a .50a/r housing would be nice I rekon for a milder setup than what I have. You would still need some fuel to spin it up though.
At a guess it would spool a touch slower than the 2860 but it would have much better top end.
Guess what I'm saying is that for $250-300 that it would cost for a compressor housing it might be worth a go, if I had one I would certainly look at trying it before forking out for a new turbo.
Only problem being is that it is a bit of a guess at the effects on the compressor map, try searching someone may have tried it.

I have expressed my views on the GTX setups else where.

Marty
 
#13 ·
From looking at maps and many results posted here and elsewhere i dont see to much to be gained with the current GTX2863 unless you are prepared to play with pump fuel, timing and compensator maping. With fuel you will have to be pushing past the 18psi area and the 2500rpm point to make the 2863 work in its best area. Maybe you should be looking at maybe using a custom setup, an idea say a bigger turbine like a GTX3071 with the GTX2863 comp and wheel this sort of thing should have the potential to fire up the turbo in the low rev pressure area without having to over fuel to fire the turbo up..Just a thought but this will require some serious pump tuning. Much of this depends on what you are really after and what you consider is a good result. For this you really need to know what it feels like to drive a 200rwkw monster or a pre 2100rpm torque monster, there is a real difference here you need to consider. I have experienced both a 200rwkw monster is a whole lot of fun but driving a torque monster feels a lot more powerful with its head snapping seat of the pants feel and is a lot of fun also. but for me personally i do like an engine that free revs a bit above the normal, a left over from my young days of driving roller everything VW engines reaching 14000rpm. So for me i can accept a little loss of low down torque for a free reving fully balanced diesel gives with a GTX3071 size turbo. Oh for a set of roller rockers lol..

So you need to know what you think is a good result to move foward and spend you hard cash on the combination of bits not just the turbo itself as this bit is only one bit in the process of tune..In the end you may think a good result is a 200rwkw monster rather than a torque monster getting both is a search all of us would like to acheive so compromise is what we end up with..I have posted a few things in the past that would help torque/spool development that have merit and need research, just like the turbo suggestion here..
 
#14 ·
Ive driven a 2871 (not sure what spec but had 112rwkw), but only for a short distance and was up it the whole time so didn't really get to feel how laggy it was/wasnt. It went well in the higher revs, but you really had to shift so it didn't land any lower than 2500rpm if you wanted it to pull hard straight away in the next gear, which is quite different to mine where it revving to 3000rpm and dropping the next gear in at 2000rpm will have it pulling just as well.

But as Bambill has said, specs on turbos change a lot, so one drive is only one experience of one set up.
 
#17 ·
When i was looking at redoing the turbo on mine. I looked at both the GTX2863 and GTX3071. From my understand that was told to me the 3071 spools up much like a DTS TD05 (we deal alot though MTQ) But flows alot better though the higher rpm range and higher boost. I went with the 2863, becuase i wanted the boost coming on earlier. It does slowly drop away roughly around the 2500 mark. But in driving condition feels like it is still pulling well. I'am also running a 12mm set up pump.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Wow great responses everyone. What I'm after is something that pulls hard in mid range to make it fun to drive not an out right power setup.
Okay bambil first of all I'm interested in the .5 at front cover from what I have searched and read it allows you to move the power curve later on and stronger?? Im currently searching to find out more info and availability on the cover. This stuff is a big learning curve but I'm keen to learn a lot out of this.

As for bigger pump it's seems as if my turbo or cooler are holding me back ATM due to running 18pd but can still easy get excessive Egt if I want.

Thanks guys keep up the info
 
#20 ·
Wow great responses everyone. Okay bambil first of all I'm interested in the .5 at front cover idea how does this smaller cover improve the pr?? Im currently searching to find out more info and availability on the cover. This stuff is a big learning curve but I'm keen to learn a lot out of this.

As for bigger pump it's seems as if my turbo or cooler are holding me back ATM due to running 18pd but can still easy get excessive Egt if I want.

Thanks guys keep up the info
I was just throwing it out there Russ,I was lucky that I could see what the result might be before I changed mine.
But if you have a spare bit of coin and half a day it could be a worthwhile experiment.

If you compare the 56trim 2871 compressor map with the 3071 map you will see what the difference the smaller a/r front cover makes. 2871 .6 a/r 3071 .5a/r , they both use the same compressor wheel. According to Garrett the reason the 2871 map wasn't tested to the high PR(pressure ratios) wasn't because of wheel speeds it was that the efficency dropped of.
I see no reason that the same thing wouldn't happen to the smaller compressor wheels map.
Maybe try and find some specs on the older HKS stuff. They played around and used different covers than Garrett did on there turbos.

Marty
 
#21 ·
Okay been reading a lot & thinking about these front cover it's plausible but having problems finding a housing ATM will go the local turbo guy when I'm home next week. But the gtx2867 looks pretty good on paper (to my limited knowledge) it has the smaller inducer wheel then 2871 and the trim being 55 is Slightly less but same rear a.r so is this turbo going to be slightly more responsive but with the new front wheel flow better mid to top end???
I think I'm going to take a visit to dt when I'm home to tune the ute again and see what his thoughts are on what's holding the power back.
 
#23 ·
Will I work just out blackwater maybe it's worth the drive up to see swaffie?
What was your exprience with the gtx tye? Was it laggier from memory I do Remember you writing something about it
 
#25 ·
well the 30 series gtx was rd 150-200 rpm. slower in spool I only ran it fir a day an ripped it off . I didn't bother to muck around with it . hopefully old mav has some good results with his though he's will be the one to watch.
 
#26 ·
Thanks tye & td
Well I'm going to do some more beneficial things for the setup in the way of a manifold and different cooler setup in the next few weeks or month so I can achieve the best out of the turbo/setup and hopefully get up swaffie way & tune it see what the outcomes brings hopefully be happy if not I'll have the bases sorted. I'll post up the results as I get it done.
 
#27 ·
i too am gathering info on the GTX series tubos from garrett
only difference with me is my gu td42ti is an auto
my question is;
should the auto be taken into consideration when deciding size of turbo?
what do you recomended for someone who wants good low end to midrage power/torque
in the gtx series turbos for a gu td42ti with 3" straight through exhaust, 12mm race pump, rebuilt injectors and front mount intercooler im aiming for about 160 to 180 safe rwkw?
Please keep in mind my patrol is an AUTO