[Bittsandbobs]

A top job! Thanks for the excellent write-up and pics.
Can you also post a picture of the electrical scematic, please?
Cheers,
B&B

 

[Grogey]

A top job! Thanks for the excellent write-up and pics.
Can you also post a picture of the electrical scematic, please?
Cheers,
B&B

and one for the spill return would be great too.

Grogey

 

[geeyoutoo]

The old girl feels stronger, torque feels improved, coming in about 200rpm lower according to a small hill at the top of my street that I can pull up at 1600 in 4th now as opposed to 1800rpm beforehand.

A top job! Thanks for the excellent write-up and pics.
Can you also post a picture of the electrical scematic, please?
Cheers,
B&B

Electrical Schematic EDIT: updated poor choice of words in power note.

and one for the spill return would be great too.

Grogey

Which finishes up looking like this earlier pic.
You will need:
2 x 1/8 bsp x 1/4 barbed fittings, male.
2 x 1/8 bsp x 3/16 barbed fittings. male.
1 x 1/8 bsp T. Female. (into which go the 90 degree, 2 x 1/4 barbs, 1 x 3/16 barb).
1 x 1/8 bsp 90 degree, male to female.
1 x 1/8 bsp cap. (The cap goes on the final 3/16 barb which blockes the spill return to the pump)
5 x small hose clips.

 

[Grogey]

That is perfect geeyoutoo.

When doing the spill return mod, is there bleeding required:

pre disconnect or
on completion of the new plumbing?

Cheers,

Grogey

 

[geeyoutoo]

That is perfect geeyoutoo.

When doing the spill return mod, is there bleeding required:

pre disconnect or
on completion of the new plumbing?

Cheers,

Grogey

You won't lose much diesel when you disconnect (I put an oil pan under the diff to catch the small amount of runoff that does flow), just get all the bits assembled ready to rock do the cut and push it together, the original hose clamp that holds the return line to the pump needs to be fully tight (that's the one with the blue paint on the head in the pic), that was the only leak I had, probably better to change to decent clamp.

If your doing the mod before the lift pump then just a few pumps of the priming knob will see it all good again.

I use "Stag" jointing paste, it's a very old brand of gasket compound that works on petrol/oil/steam/water/gas and just about anything else you can think of, magic stuff for sealing, any good engineering supply place will have it.

Cheers

 

[Grogey]

You won't lose much diesel when you disconnect (I put an oil pan under the diff to catch the small amount of runoff that does flow), just get all the bits assembled ready to rock do the cut and push it together, the original hose clamp that holds the return line to the pump needs to be fully tight (that's the one with the blue paint on the head in the pic), that was the only leak I had, probably better to change to decent clamp.

If your doing the mod before the lift pump then just a few pumps of the priming knob will see it all good again.

I use "Stag" jointing paste, it's a very old brand of gasket compound that works on petrol/oil/steam/water/gas and just about anything else you can think of, magic stuff for sealing, any good engineering supply place will have it.

Cheers

Thanks again, geeyoutoo.

I won't do these mods for a few months, as i've got a few months left on a warranty package, but felt it best to ask when the thread was live.

Do you apply the jointing past to the barbed fittings before sliding on the tubes?

and do you complete all the connections then prime? Or connect everything bar the final connection at the blue marked clamp, prime to remove are then connect at blue clamp?

Total diesel fuel system novice.

Cheers

Grogey

 

[geeyoutoo]

You can buy stag in a tube, I coated all the threads just being a bit careful not to put any on the ends of the thread (to prevent it from entering the fuel system). Stag will remain tacky in between the threads forming a good seal and dries firm on the outside exposed area.

I assembled all the fittings on the bench once I knew what bits went at what angle (lift pump parts as well). Cut the fuel hoses, slid the hose clamps onto the hoses and then pushed all the bits together.

Don't use the compound on the hoses or barbs (only the threads), the hose clamps will seal all that. Install all the bits and tighten all the hose clamps.

I did them all at once and I did not need to do much to prime at all (please note the bleed point I fitted at the filter outlet), I just turned the pump on then off, you can hear the pump frequency change when it has reached its self regulated pressure threshold, I then unscrewed the bleed plug in the top of the T and then pushed the priming knob until a small amount of fuel came out of the hole then screwed the plug in securely and started the vehicle. If you were replacing the fuel filter this is all you would need to do, except wait a little longer for the pump to fill the filter cavity.

Hope this helps

 

[geeyoutoo]

Been driving around for a few weeks now and just did the trip to the SEQ forum Meetup which was a 320k round trip so here's an update plus a few notes:

1. When the old girl grenaded I had a new solid flywheel and clutch fitted while the engine was out, then I had an annoying vibration at low rev's that wasn't there before, well bugga me, the vibration has gone, better fuel delivery at those low revs must be helping, so I can only think the vibration has been there all along with the DMF masking it, the solid brought it into the open and the lift pump took it away.

2. One thing I forgot to mention to my fellow electrical dyslexics is when wiring it up you need to get the right relay otherwise the 3 way switch won't work, I'm using a Narva 68044BL 5 pin with 87 normally open and 87a normally closed.

3. As said earlier I ran both power and earth cables back under the bonnet, this allowed me to completely seal the connections at the pump. I bought some plastic tube end inserts (16mm OD from memory) from Clark Rubber which were a neat press fit over the nuts on the terminals then trimmed a short bit out of the side for the soldered on cable fitting to protrude. Once it was all assembled I put some good quality sealant over the connection and inside the plastic cover and pushed them on (see pic below) so all is perfectly sealed and waterproof.

4. My initial observation of improved torque 200rpm lower still holds up.

5. The return trip to the SEQ meetup (320k as mentioned) resulted in a fuel eco of 10.1 L/100k so there is no loss there at all, we sat on around 104k for most of the highway trip down and my EGT were quite stable fluctuating between 230-270C, now with the spill line mod we should be running a little cooler fuel into the IP so not sure if this has made a bit of difference.

6. There is always a down side (but in this case it's not really a problem), the Carter is quite a noisy pump, when I first turned it on in the garage I thought bugga, the missus will hate that, but in the open it's different, when you turn on the ignition, sure you can hear it but once the engine fires and your on the road you don't notice it.

I hate cutting standard bits or drilling any unnecessary holes in a perfectly good vehicle, so all fuel connections were done without cutting original hoses or tubes, so this whole exercise can be reverse engineered at any time (I now have a cupboard full of std bits I've taken off).

Next trip is to Adelaide very soon so will see how we go with that.

Cheers Guy's, I hope this makes it a little easier for the next person, sorry I can't do anything for the skin you will lose off your hands :headwall:.

 

[Grogey]

Great write up Geeyoutoo.

Good to here its worked out well.

Do you think rubber mounts or sound shielding might help with the noise and did the missus mind?

Cheers Grogey

By the way those are astonishingly low EGTs. Is there anything particularily different with your rig thats helping this; smaller tyres, probe a little further down the dump pipe.

 

[geeyoutoo]

Great write up Geeyoutoo.

Good to here its worked out well.

Do you think rubber mounts or sound shielding might help with the noise and did the missus mind?

Cheers Grogey

By the way those are astonishingly low EGTs. Is there anything particularily different with your rig thats helping this; smaller tyres, probe a little further down the dump pipe.

Thanks Mate, appreciated. I fitted the standard rubber sound deadening mounts that came with the pump, after starting it up I thought "Bugga" should have bought the optional mounts as well, but you don't need them when your on the road. So family is cool with it Missus never noticed it and I didn't bring it up........

Yes, the EGT upper threshold has come down but interestingly the egt lower threshold has gone up ever so slightly not sure why that is. Probe is in the normal position 50 odd mm from the turbo flange.

I don't think tyres would make much difference, I've still got the 265x75x16's I've always had but going to 285's when this set wears out in the second half of this year, now that I am sure I have enough grunt to pull them OK when towing.

And don't forget when I came back from the US I fitted my Cross Country and thermo fan.

 

[Grogey]

........

Yes, the EGT upper threshold has come down but interestingly the egt lower threshold has gone up ever so slightly not sure why that is. Probe is in the normal position 50 odd mm from the turbo flange.

..................

I would imagine that the auxiliary pump has caused the timing to advance marginally, but I would assume the ECU can’t account for this. Advancing the timing results in increased cylinder pressures and higher peak flame temperatures which leads to a more complete burn of the fuel injected. This can result in a drop in EGTs

Less advanced timing decreases cylinder pressure and reduces peak flame temperature since the fuel charge is injected once the piston has past TDC and is already on its way back down the cylinder in the power stroke. It is more difficult to get a complete burn in this case, and it is this hot, unspent exhaust gas that gets past the valves and on to the turbo creating higher EGTs

So under load, (where before the IP may have struggled to keep up and the timing slipped later), could the advance in timing be more significant. More energy is being expended in the cylinder resulting in cooler Exhuast gases.

And under lighter load (where the IP was keeping up OK and possibly actively retarding timing for emissions reasons) could there be slightly more fuel being injected, due to the high pre IP fuel pressure, which then results in more unspent fuel passing the valves and creating the higher EGTs you experience here.

Maybe a diesel tuning guru could step in here.

Grogey

 

[geeyoutoo]

I would imagine that the auxiliary pump has caused the timing to advance marginally, but I would assume the ECU can’t account for this. Advancing the timing results in increased cylinder pressures and higher peak flame temperatures which leads to a more complete burn of the fuel injected. This can result in a drop in EGTs

Less advanced timing decreases cylinder pressure and reduces peak flame temperature since the fuel charge is injected once the piston has past TDC and is already on its way back down the cylinder in the power stroke. It is more difficult to get a complete burn in this case, and it is this hot, unspent exhaust gas that gets past the valves and on to the turbo creating higher EGTs

So under load, (where before the IP may have struggled to keep up and the timing slipped later), could the advance in timing be more significant. More energy is being expended in the cylinder resulting in cooler Exhuast gases.

And under lighter load (where the IP was keeping up OK and possibly actively retarding timing for emissions reasons) could there be slightly more fuel being injected, due to the high pre IP fuel pressure, which then results in more unspent fuel passing the valves and creating the higher EGTs you experience here.

Maybe a diesel tuning guru could step in here.

Grogey

You are quite possibly correct particularly in the first scenario, the eco I got on the trip of 10.1 L/100k with a mixture of highway and city would seem to indicate it hasn't cost me fuel at all and with that vibration gone this seems to indicate improved efficiency in the burn.

The funny thing is my eco recently has not been all that good because I have been trialling different things and the old girl is going so well it is hard to keep the right foot off the pedal so I was really pleased with that number.

I am currently fitting my TurboSmart FCD2 I have it all installed and wires run to there termination points, it is just the final cut into the RED wire (I think) that is holding me up, after that is done I will quite possibly be looking for a tuning Guru to optimise my DTronic/FCD2 compatibility, I have already worked out the voltages I need to clip at.

 

[tweak'e]

I would imagine that the auxiliary pump has caused the timing to advance marginally,

i doubt it. pressure is regulated inside the IP. unless you go over its max pressure then you won't increase the timing. however if its got low pressure due to restriction or air being sucked in, the IP timing can be retarded. the pressure from the lift pump can fix that and you get normal timing back.

 

[tweak'e]

i may have to eat my words here. just looking at he diagram it looks like the pressure regulator goes across suction to pressure side, so if you increase inlet pressure by 2psi it should increase internal pressure by 2psi. i don't know what pressure that regulator is set to.

 

[geeyoutoo]

i doubt it. pressure is regulated inside the IP. unless you go over its max pressure then you won't increase the timing. however if its got low pressure due to restriction or air being sucked in, the IP timing can be retarded. the pressure from the lift pump can fix that and you get normal timing back.

Not so sure about that, from what I have read on the net in numerous places both here and the US their is quite a school of thought that the timing is altered giving a slight benefit particularly with the VP44. It can also help with a worn pump in extending it's life span and efficiency, but, the interesting part is that with all the mods I have taken on through this forum there has been a steady increase in performance each time and I have owned this vehicle since new, no catch up experienced.

 

[Grogey]

.....................

I am currently fitting my TurboSmart FCD2 I have it all installed and wires run to there termination points, it is just the final cut into the RED wire (I think) that is holding me up, after that is done I will quite possibly be looking for a tuning Guru to optimise my DTronic/FCD2 compatibility, I have already worked out the voltages I need to clip at.

Hi geeyoutoo,

Where are you intercepting the MAF signal. It is the Red wire. Are you connecting at the Electronic Control Module (ECM) Connector Terminal 35 end or at the Sensor Harness end? Is it a cut and solder job?

I take it you have been using an ECUtalk to monitor MAF voltage. Not having one is it possible to connect a multimeter in anyway to view voltage during driving. Was considering some way of connecting a mulimeter between the red wire and an earth point, but concerned any connection could cause unwanted alterations to the voltage recieved by the ECM

Grogey

 

[geeyoutoo]

Hi geeyoutoo,

Where are you intercepting the MAF signal. It is the Red wire. Are you connecting at the Electronic Control Module (ECM) Connector Terminal 35 end or at the Sensor Harness end? Is it a cut and solder job?

I take it you have been using an ECUtalk to monitor MAF voltage. Not having one is it possible to connect a multimeter in anyway to view voltage during driving. Was considering some way of connecting a mulimeter between the red wire and an earth point, but concerned any connection could cause unwanted alterations to the voltage recieved by the ECM

Grogey

Yes, I have been using my ECUTalk in my research. I have separated the wires at the back of MAF, my intention is to cut into that point soldering the connection and shrinking to maintain the waterproof connection, with the module in the cabin, I figured it was easier for me this way. I have extended the module wires (all soldered and individually shrunk terminations) by a few meters and pulled them through the firewall, power and earth I have picked up from the same points as the lift pump to keep it all in one space along with the rest of the stuff I have put in.

Unfortunately I am not electrically smart enough to answer your question re multimeter connection, but you should be able to connect into the cable at the ECU for this reading, I had a good chat to the guy's at JayCar and TurboSmart and basically the way I understand it is if you don't alter the resistance all is fine with the voltage readings.

 

[geeyoutoo]

Recently returned from my 5560K round trip to the Goolwa SA meetup. A good test for the CCIC and the Lift pump (did a lot of testing on the FCD2 as well but will write up what I found in that thread, gets complicated.

Fuel eco for the trip (fully loaded, fridge, food, suitcases, spares etc,etc) was 11.1L/100, the best was 9.7 and the worst was 12.5 (this included the beach run). Going down we were in the tail end of the bad weather and had some strong headwinds and water between St George and Broken Hill and then again coming back through the Hay Plains. The worst EGT I recorded was coming home on the climb out of Adelaide (on the way to Bordertown to pick up my work light frame from Sudso) very long, steady climb in 5th with cruise set at 105k, pulled up very strong with 425C the highest recorded.

There were occasions, where being on boost, I accelerated and 5th felt like 4th, had to check the gearstick a few times until I got used to it.

Would be interesting to know if the cooler fuel delivery due to the spill line bypass has any positive effect on fuel eco?

So, the fuel eco has definitely not suffered at all from any of the mods and the EGT's are the best I've ever had, at one stage I switched to low boost as the EGT was only a touch over 200C and I was worried it was a bit too cool, the low boost setting of 10psi lifted the EGT by about 50C.

Missus did not hear the Carter at all while traveling.

So for anyone thinking of doing the lift pump mod, I will recommend it, but I would make it one of the last engine mods to do as the other mods, Dawes/Exhaust/IC/etc will peak at this point I feel.

Thanks again to the SA guy's, great bunch, they can't pick the tides , but still a great bunch.

Cheers

 

[Grogey]

Congratulations on a successful mod, and glad to here your trip went well.

The lift pump is definitily on my todo list but as you say its will be the last one and then a run on the dino.

Grogey

 

[02Troll]

Been driving around for a few weeks now and just did the trip to the SEQ forum Meetup which was a 320k round trip so here's an update plus a few notes:

1. When the old girl grenaded I had a new solid flywheel and clutch fitted while the engine was out, then I had an annoying vibration at low rev's that wasn't there before, well bugga me, the vibration has gone, better fuel delivery at those low revs must be helping, so I can only think the vibration has been there all along with the DMF masking it, the solid brought it into the open and the lift pump took it away.

Been following your thread on and off for a while, great info as I have this mod on the to do list, but recently I have just been reading all the blow up threads, just getting an understanding of the issues an $ for repairs, anyway stumbled across the solid flywheel survey & you were more than just vocal about your disgust with it.
From the note above, has this mod fixed the vibration issue with the solid flywheel to your satisfaction, would you go back to a DMF now?
May be relevant to others who have the vibration issues.