Did you get this sorted? If not, according to my GQ manual, bolt tension is 54-64nm (or 40-47 ft/lb).


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Thanks for asking mate.

No Im waiting to get some loctite too.

So is it simple as doing those bolts and swapping over?

New ones has extra little bolts for a cap. Not sure what to do there?

Is it just a case of placing in position and just bolt back on?

Sorry. Newbie here

 

Current one

 

New one.

 

Are the ROK new? Did they come with anything else?

The factory ones have the hub, gear, egg ring and step ring all as part of the assembly.
I would say most of this would need changing unless they bolt onto the factory gear. (this slides over the spline on the end of the CV)

It's all really simple to remove anyway, there is a circlip on the end of the spline that holds it all in place.

 

Convert Auto Hubs to Manual Pictorial.

Even though your doing it differently this pictorial may be of some help.

 

Other side. Brand new rok manual ones.
So im going from manual to manual

 

I have to say sorry I don’t like the look of those ROK hubs. If they’re not utilizing the circlip on the end of the drive spline, there’s nothing controlling CV end float within the entire swivel hub.

The end float design on the front end was engineered for a reason no doubt, and I wouldn’t be surpassing it without an understanding of it being satisfied otherwise.

 

Just comes with a gasket and new bolts

 

Looks like the circlip, egg ring and drive clutch will need to be removed, those hubs appear to slide straight onto the CV splines.
I like to put a bit of grease on the CV splines and in the free wheeling hub.

 

Thanks James. They are heavy as . Seem solid too. Ill take off the old ones of the weekend and see whats behind them

 

So are you assuming your splines in the hubs are worn. These look like cheap knock off of AVM hubs so I'm wondering why you would expect them to be better quality than the factory manual hubs.

 

Hey Fester. Why would you assume I assume that?

I dont expect them to be better quality or worse. I dont want to even compare.

I bought them because I had some spare cash and trying to chase a random clunk when in soft sand and in 4wd.

Either way they stay on or those ones already are on stay on. Ill have a spare set to give to a mate who has auto hubs.

 

Also the ones on there now are factory? previous mechanic owner told me he converted to manual from Auto so I have no idea what brand they are.

I just thought those new ones are a cheap no name copy (but I don't really know) and I was wondering why you would remove what I believe are perfectly good factory manual hubs to replace with cheap aftermarket ones. I assumed you thought the clunk was in your splines.

 

Also the ones on there now are factory? previous mechanic owner told me he converted to manual from Auto so I have no idea what brand they are.

 

lol and thankyou. I just learnt something off you tonight.

I understand why a manual hub will go faulty. You mentioned splines wearing out.

 

Ah, that's a point if you didn't put them in and don't know what he used. Not sure how to tell the difference between aftermarket copy and factory.

 

drgtr, when you remove the factory manual or factory copy whichever they are. Once you have the outer hub part off there will be a C clip on the end of the CV spline, you remove this and any washer if there is one. Then the drive gear will slide off the spline. You may have to also remove the stepped ring where the drive gear was running in. There is also a thinner egg ring in the hub.

These are the parts, drive gear (Drive Clutch), stepped ring (Bushing) and egg ring (Spacer). (In brackets is what they are referred to in the document linked below).

You should also put the washer and C clip back on the inner most grove in the spline shaft, you will have to grab the end of the spline and pull outwards to get the clip on. At that point you are meant to use a feeler gauge to check the end float in the shaft between the C clip with washer if it had one and the end of the stub axle. You should have 0.4 mm or less I think it is from memory. The auto hubs that were removed would have had a copper washer, followed by a thin shim steel washer and a C clip thickness to get the correct end float. This holds the CV in the correct place against a thrust washer in the back of the stub axle or spindle and an inner grease seal.

If you open this document, it is the full swivel hub seal overhaul, but at the beginning it has most of the part and diagrams you will need for removal. Also shows the difference in washers etc from auto and manual hubs. You are basically putting the spline and washers Clips back to how it would have been with the auto hubs. So having been converted it may have some or all of the washers needed.

At the end of the guide is the bit about adjusting the washers and checking end float.

http://pedders.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Nissan-Patrol-Y61-GU-Swivel-Hub-Seal-Installation.pdf

Should then be able to bolt the new hubs on. Might be worth using a thin bead of sealant if they don't have a gasket.

 

Thanks BR

I have messaged the seller and asked.

 

So if auto hubs end float is taken on a spindle washer prior to the spline being fitted, when converting to manual hubs (which is what he has fitted) the circlip position should move to the outer groove as it would be in the manual hub position?
If this isn’t fitted correctly right now I wonder if it’s causing the clunk noise that is the motive for swapping out the hubs.
I have had auto hubs off before and have seen that the spline has more circlip grooves than a manual hub axle, but I did notice that it still has the outer groove like a manual hub axle.

 

Yes that's a possibility if the drive gear drifts out on the spline to engage or even partly and make noise. Or the CV making the clunk.

Also yes your correct the GU with auto hubs has both grooves in the shaft for either option, as well as little cut out sections in the tip of the spindle for the auto clutch thing to lock into.

Got a reply

"If you are using the factory manual hubs then yes you need the snap ring as the drive gear drifts outwards and engages so the front diff turns even in 2wd. As it happens it has nothing to do with float. However these operate differently and the drive gear remains secured in place by a spring. We have sold about 1000 of these in this model (and another 10,000 hubs in other models) and the snap ring is not required in this case. It's probably not what you wanted to hear."

I get what he said but don't agree it does have to do with shaft end float (as well as holding the drive gear). I still think you need a clip on the inner most groove, it holds the CV shaft out in the correct place with the shaft in a needle roller bearing inside the back of the spindle and against the seal and thrust washer. Without it there is possibility of the CV moving and binding as you turn full lock that could be possible source of noise.

It's not a big deal either way to fit the c clip as long as this hub design allows some room for it to be on the first groove. Have a look at the first and last few pages in that swivel hub change instructions document I linked before.

On one front diff I pulled apart where the clip was missing on the spline shaft, the CV had been making obvious rubbing marks inside the big ball swivel housing as it moved and hit and the CV inner cage part was cracked.

 

Got a reply

"If you are using the factory manual hubs then yes you need the snap ring as the drive gear drifts outwards and engages so the front diff turns even in 2wd. As it happens it has nothing to do with float. However these operate differently and the drive gear remains secured in place by a spring. We have sold about 1000 of these in this model (and another 10,000 hubs in other models) and the snap ring is not required in this case. It's probably not what you wanted to hear."

 

X2 Geordie as you describe, that response is and isn’t correct in differing terms; yes the drive gear will move if the circlip isn’t fitted, however the circlip is vital to control end float which actually includes the hub drive gear to do so.

Short story, I take it that if the axle doesn’t have the inner circlip grooves and the end float controlled by the spindle washer assembly and all its components as if it would be in an auto hub, you shouldn’t fit it.

 

Drgtr you need to remove your locking hubs and examine the components to determine whether they’re an auto hub conversion or have always been manual hubs.
The initial question is do the outer splines have more than one circlip groove? If so, then I think you have to determine how can you find the components to assemble the inner end float design which is what you require to fit those hubs on the outer spline.
Possibly they’re designed to straight swap for auto hubs.
Personally I would recon the factory manual hubs and ensure they are fitted correctly, and buy a set of these steel lock rings which make the factory manual hubs virtually unbreakable.

 

Drgtr you need to remove your locking hubs and examine the components to determine whether they’re an auto hub conversion or have always been manual hubs.

Being an ST they should be converted auto hubs, unless old mate got creative for some reason and swapped the whole front.

 

I just stole Chipfryers photo from his other post

Is that the circlip ring you guys are talking about?

 

Geordie GU on hand experience, I’ve never pulled apart an auto hub but I can say that that is the inner end play design. If you were to bolt on those ROK that you pictured the end play would be satisfied. However you have manual hubs and if these components don’t already exist in there you would have to source and fit them.

 

I just stole Chipfryers photo from his other post

Is that the circlip ring you guys are talking about?

Ah good, yes I just saw that and was about to link that post for you to look at, but you have already.
Boundary Rider, as far as I know all GU models would have had option for the auto hubs and even the bare bones DX Utes which had manual hubs still had the spindle and shaft with two grooves.

See on the end of the spindle there are little square cut out bits, normally the auto hub aligns with that. Then you can see a few washers in that photo and the clip, there is normally a thin copper washer followed by an even thinner steel shim washer and the C clip. You get correct end float by changing thickness of the C clip and if needed replacing the other two washers as the copper washer is most likely to have some wear.

But if you also look at the second photo in Chipfrier's post there is a view with the body of the hub bolted on and the cap removed to show the end of the spline shaft through the drive gear of the new hub. Some hubs like AVM will have the C clip on that outer end, but some do not and rely on you having the inner end C clip.

You are just going to have to take them off and investigate what fits and what is already in there after converting to manual.

 

Thanks BR .Im slowly learning.
Might get a mechanic mate to help and learn from him.