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The Prodigal Child Has Returned
nissan
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I would like to know any one claiming to have inlet temps at or under ambient temp, in this thread.


Sent using carrier pigeon from Bill Lawrie
 

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nissan
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^^^^ x2 ... There must be some as allegedly they perform waaaay better than tmic.
A hard argument to win when you need the perpetrators to find the evidence for you.
 

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SUI GENERIS UTE
GQ Ute 1990 Silvertop
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6,066 Posts
I will comment here as I do have quite a bit of experience here with the TD42 at 150+rwkw. I tried many different front mounts some 10 different designs. They all worked well at cruse speed usually seeing a 10deg C above ambient. The 2 very large top mounts I tried did the same thing there really wasn't any difference at cruse conditions. Changing from front mount to top mount on the same power engine there is a noticeable difference in response. (don't be fooled here there is quite a difference in response) But the only real difference was temp recovery, the top mount did take longer to recover after a short stop or low speed work due to soak, but to be honest it just didn't make that much difference to seat of the pants feel if anything for a daily drive. You cannot test this stuff on the dyno as dyno runs change significantly as you just cannot get enough air to simulate on road conditions. But on road time trials up a hill for example I couldn't get any real difference between the two taking into account margins of error for driver operations.

Now both systems air to air the after cooler temps are not stable by any means they move up and down relative to boost level changes or load conditions in the on road environment, Maybe the front mount was a bit better but that is debatable because it was a little bit bigger than the top mount I was using. So I would expect this to be reflected in our results bigger is better here of course when temp stability is your aim.

To try and compare a W2A is just silly here there is no comparison. Sure it took me some 10 years to get my W2A to work as I was expecting and I have many times posted what I do and how to set one of these systems up for best ideals. My first few attempts at W2A were hopeless and the air to air systems I had were a lot better. But eventually I got it sorted to the point that it works as I expected. Things like response are hard to measure on a dyno but sort of can be measured on timed acceleration runs but I changed manifolds etc to fit the W2A so results cannot be compared due to better manifold flow. But still with my set up seeing a less than 10deg C above ambient was usual for cruse speeds but the big difference is the temp rise with changing loads its just so much slower, most times the temp just doesn't change at all due to duration times of engine load. You have to work the crap out of my engine to see 45deg C then the electric fans turn on and temps reduce back to normal of a few degrees above ambient. This sort of temp stability is just not possible with a Air to Air system no matter how well you set it up in our patrol. That said the Air to Air does a good job and better than not having a cooler but to try and compare top mount to front mount is just silly. Its more about sizing and how many tight bends you have in the system that makes one more effective than the other. With attention to detail and ideal piping and minimum bends or no silicone bends both system are very much the same if cooler sizes are comparable but the top mount is slower to recover but we are talking daily drivers here so really this isn't a big issue.

If you want the most effective system and looking for ideals then a well set up W2A is far and away the most ideal setup. But at the end of the day we are talking 1%er's here the W2A, as good as it is that isn't where you get the edge. The W2A due to its size and fitment ability you can have shorter straighter induction piping and a more ideal intake manifold, its more about the other mods that allows the W2A to be more effective for power/torque/driveability.

If you want to compare cooling systems to systems then water injection kills all these coolers hands down for outright power/torque/driveability. I have done this many times when I was rebuilding new coolers. I stepped up the amount of water being injected into the short crossover piping I made for these times of rebuilding coolers on the TD42. Setting this sort of thing up you can get 10degC lower than ambient at full load on the dyno. Just depends on how much water/methanol you inject. This is called chemical cooling and if you are only seeing below 120rwkw this is a very good option For the SD33 if you can carry the water volume required. For these lower power values like most of you guys with the SD33 the water injection route is a good option without the pain of stuffing about with coolers and believe me this stuff adds way more power than any cooler could to the SD33..
 

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nissan patrol
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I'll just my decision.
I have a FMIC atm but the out let's are too small and have crappy piping.
Not gonna go into explaining this but Old Mav helped to point this out to me.
I stayed away from w2a due to money constraints and trying to keep it simple.
I spent a long time looking at a lot threads on moth top and front IC.

My final decision was a TMIC for a couple of reasons.
1: I like playing in the mud, less than I used too but still can't help myself, and am too lazy/don't get time to stuff around with removing things to clean it out, this was after filling current set up with mud even after trying to wash it out many times while fitted to car.
2: I'm planning to fit a fan under the intercooler to pull air through it constantly.

Very simple reasons to make decision but enough for me.
I'm not running huge boost or after huge power so it's enough

I'm no expert just made my decision from many posts, just my 2cents
 
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