So after reading the other thread and then this one, If you change your glow plugs every 100,000k's as recommended and swap them for metal tip then there shouldnt be any need for this mod at all.
Correct?

 

Not from my perspective, I see some sort of Glow Plug Time control as a significant part of NADS, 75C or 5 minutes is a bloody long time and totally unnecessary in our regular environment. Especially if you face the potential risk of having a small injector issue that sprays fuel onto the Glow Plug area.

Maybe you don't need to go to this extent but for me it was easy and convenient, if I had not done it this way I would have put in a manual switch. My rationale? to do all I can to prevent even the most remote possibility of cracking the head and this mod makes me totally comfortable.

 

You can just use $2 momentary push ON switch to activate preheat timer yourself or use the switch only without timer by holding it down for those extra 10 seconds like in the old days by earthing glow relay directly.

Anything is better than that idiotic Nissan system.

I have Kemo timer and most of the time I keep overriding it so it doesn't actuate because engine preheat is not required above 10°C at all. Engine starts first kick.

Regards

 

+1 If I was doing it again I'd just put a switch, KISS.

 

I have read all the threads on here (2-3 times now) with great interest as wanted to do this mod and can see the benefits from doing so.

It would appear the Kemo (newer) units are the problem, even with the fix leaving them constantly on while driving is not desirable nor anyone sure if this is a good thing or bad thing for the Kemo units.

So what about other timer's? other dedicated glow plug timers? instead of the Kemo timers, like for example Glow Plug Timer Universal FIT 12V Adjustable ON Time LED Indicator Mount Diesel | eBay

Sure they are more pricey but not heaps and still quite affordable and small price to pay if the timer works, probably save that amount in glow plug replacement anyway.

So I want to do the mod but it appears the latest Kemo units are undesirable so if the work around is not ideal with more wires and more delay timers and constantly on with relays then what about a different unit to do the job instead?

 

Had a look at Kemo and for the life of me cant work out why as soon as engine starts glow plug 12v goes off always first start in morning, the next few starts goes of at differing times ??
Any Ideas anyone

 

Did you read post # 4 in the other thread? This is a method one of our EU guy's used to overcome the problem, the same guy who sent his to me from Slovakia to prove or disprove there was a difference in the timer.

If it still doesn't work I'd be going back over the wiring as I am not aware of multiple differences.

I'm sorry but this is how we collect our info, we try to keep it as simple as possible and central, but info takes time to accrue and often has to come from many sources, if you don't have time to read it I can't help that, sorry.

 

Is their a solution with newer timers ???

Hi geeyoutoo,

I went to the sub forum and found a thread but it has a number of pages and like before I am out of reading time and just need a fix.

Is their a current solution that works for the latest 240240M version, I have had pm's with Q8160 but even his latest suggested wiring change and deletion of added relay doesn't work.

I really need car working with operable glow plugs tonight.

thanks in anticipation

 

sort the threads out ????

Hi geettoyou, I have read most of the threads and it took quite a time sorting thru the pages and pages. Surely it would be a good idea to delete and or file these and notify users via a postmark or something that they are not relevant anymore. it would appear me and number of others have innocently followed these threads and I for one am pretty pissed the bloody timer is not working after repeated wiring attempts and car still not driveable.

 

Help on timer please.

Hi guys, look I'm not an electrician, but followed this and also switched the negative terminal and the ECU feed wire around (as per previous threads mudstar / Dwheyie) and still can't get the bloody timer to activate.


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thanks in anticipation

 

Hi guys, look I'm not an electrician, but followed this and also switched the negative terminal and the ECU feed wire around (as per previous threads mudstar / Dwheyie) and still can't get the bloody timer to activate.

Caged

thanks in anticipation

Mate that's my diagramme and it won't work on the later model Kemo but works fine on the earlier ones (when we first did it).

Guy's we spend a lot of time monitoring these threads and trying to keep things simple, we have 3 threads going on the glow plug timer and all that is doing is confusing the issue and fragmenting the information, 2 are archived, it would be good if we could keep it central because the solution to this problem is in the other thread in the ZD30DI subsection about the differences between the models..........

 

glow plug timer

Hi Guys,

I have also been doing the glow plugs and timer and just finished this pm and yes I get a green light but no red and can't seem to activate the timer. I have wired mine as per previous older threads and as per advice from Q8160.

I will try this revised layout in the morning.

I took my feed from the autron dual battery gauge that I have inside the cabin that was live when the ignition was ÖN.

Best regards, and thanks to all on this forum and in this case Q8160 for all his hard work.

Caged

 

Picking up power from the windscreen motor wire is in a very early post... maybe by Chaz.
As for Kemo being powered up all the time, if your Kemo works without a time delay to the added relay, allowing the ECU to control the earth function, the Kemo is only powered on for 5 minutes..
In which case dosen't matter a dam where the positive comes from.

 

Yes but that is where all the problems are coming from. If your switching the earth on the Kemo at the same time as closing the contacts on the added relay you are going to have problems.

That is why I left the Kemo powered on ( I have also now picked up my feed from the wiper motor). Then it is already to go when the ECU closes the contact in the added relay, and then the ECU is connected in series with the contact in the Kemo. Which then closes the glow plug relay.

Dhuey


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Good idea GU_mudstar defiantly the way to go if you don't want the KEMO powered up all the time.

Dhuey

 

Big whoops.... big SORRY.... if you use the ACC wire of the ignition switch it does as Dheuy85 notes #21

 

I understand the need for some kind of controll on the glow plugs but why add the complexity of a timer? I just put a momentary push button in the relay switching wire for the glow plugs. Hold it in for about 5 seconds after turning the key on and she fires on the second revolution every time. Take your finger off the button and its all done. no complex wiring, no relays,no problems and no cracked head.

 

Why the timer



Hi,
Call it each to his own.
Addition of the timer allows the use of metal tip glow plugs along with a reduction in time of the commanded ON period. Means no ceramic glow plug tips to break off and bounce around within the engine.
However I have come to the conclusion that the ZD30 with metal tip glow plugs installed need glow plugs to be commanded on for the time of the dash light prior to start and also a period after start, till there is at least a bit heat in the combustion chamber so to say.
You might say the extra 15 seconds of glow plugs ON after start stops the 'rock and roll and heavy metal noise'..(diesel knock)....and I believe your ZD30 over time will love you for it, (the time on - not the diesel knock).

I would advise you take a metal tip glow plug and do a 'bush mechanic' test. Short one out across a good battery and note how long the plug takes to reach full glow... my observation on the plugs I am using, they just get to red-hot at 5 seconds and white hot at about 7 seconds. If you are staying with ceramics - well that's a different story.

Plus, in my case there are other peoples who drive the truk. The Wife, the Kids, the Bloke at the Tyre shop, the Bloke at the Auto trans shop etc. At least with the timer installed I am assured that every start sequence is the same (x2 geeyoutoo's comments above)....... with this cold weather around, last thing I need is someone winding the old girl over... adding unburnt / unwanted diesel into the cylinders(oblivious to the fact the glow plugs are not being commanded ON), which as high carbon collects on the turbocharger blades and vanes and in the catalytic converter which in turn will possibly become blocked which will then lead to unneeded aggravation ( for the ZD30) and me.

Each to his own ...

 

Hi Dheuy85, Rather than scourcing your power direct from the battery, why not wire to the accessory wire at the back of the ignition switch .....5 screws, column plastic shrouds split and can be removed, with a multi meter verify the ACC wire and join in.
Or take a wire from here to switch a relay for power...
Reason I say is that should the Kemo fail somewhere down the track and all that is available is the later manufactured Kemo - which appears to have an issue - just plug the new one in and all will work fine..
You won't have any issues like repowering for another 30 secs when the key goes thru the start selection..
Cheers

 

I didn't do that because the ACC circuit turns off while the motor is cranking. I already had a fused feed running in from the battery for my head unit and UHF.

The advantage of not earthing one side of the contact in the KEMO to earth. Is if the ECU turns off the glow plugs before the KEMO because the car is up to temperature the ECU will override the KEMO.

This Circuit is working on the latest 24024OM KEMO M113a.

Dhuey


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Hey guys i am Just a simple electrician but I have just connected 2 of these "mine and a mates" and I just made the control circuit up as I went and I didn't have any problems with the kemo unit that a lot of you seem to be having.

So I have put the changes that I made to the circuit into the original diagram so that you can see if it works for you.

Dhuey

 

Been Busy with uni, work an rebuilding my turbo civics bottom end.....

OK guys HUGE UPDATE! With regards to this new diagram, it works! BUT in saying Soooo....

My power source is from the Wiper motors power, i spliced it in, an thus there is always power source even when cranking... Originally i did try the battery terminals, but this left the Kemo always on constantly even when the car is off.. not good

Having it powered from wiper power is better option as it only turns on/off when the car keys are in an out

In order to get to that power, u need to splice the wiper motor loom to expose the 4-5 wires...

similar to this:

It should be the only wire that has a red strip on it, indicating its positive feed wire!

but as it stands on, the only down side is the Kemo will only de-active once the keys are out and engine shut off... meaning the green light will turn off when the engine is turned off... It still gets the signal from the ecu to activate the timer

The timer runs as it should b minus the exception of it always being powered lol

hope this helps some one out!

Having no Glow plugs lighting up the last 3 weeks sucks ass!!!! Car runs pretty crap on cold idle, now it runs like a dream on start up! Needa swap to Metal tips asap

cheers

 

Mines wired from a circuit I use for a number of things, including my JayCar unit, based on power from the cig lighter and it has never been an issue no matter what State or temp I encounter, sure the timer will reset and run for another 30 seconds after the start, but as said no issues.

 

Hi guys,

Just been and bought the kemo timer and a TRIDON relay TR024 PAC and was reading what was required and how to start the wiring. My preference is to wire within the cabin and have the kemo on the back/ side wall of the footwell where others have installed.

So questions.
1. It appears from the latest threads that some issues have not be bottomed out, and that power is required all the time and yet cigarette lighter is not advisable as it does not have 12 v during cranking. Could someone who has done this install tell me where they took power from please.
2. On the glow plug install what did people utilise to remove glow plugs and did they find the insulator washers worn damaged (ie do they need to be replaced as well).
3. In glow plug install the inlet manifold has to be removed ?? Is this easy are gaskets needed and am I right in saying that this once removed can then be further disassembled to clean spooge / carbon out of intake.

thanking you in anticipation.

 

Hi mudstar,
With all the hoo-har with using the Kemo M113A timer -- and the original "why the missing tips" thread has been closed down...... a bit more information.

OK, so all members agree that implementing a Kemo timer switch into the Glow Plug circuit is not going to trigger DTC -- now that's good.

Installing the Kemo as per the above circuit diagram is great as all the added components are controlled by the ECU.

BUT....we have since found that there is differences between Kemo timers.

SO...since there is no implications with the DTC.....PLEASE DISREGARD REFERENCE TO THE ABOVE CIRCUIT DIAGRAM ---- unless you wish for a fully ECU controlled system. Which will mean possibly employing a time ON delay to the added relay.

Having purchased a Kemo M113A timer switch (don't care what batch numbers etc) you probably wonder how can I wire it into the glow plug circuit.

Well.... now it appears to be very simple:-
For the NEGATIVE (earth -) - put to a good earth point on the vehicle.
For the POSITIVE (+) - seek out a ACCESSORY SWITCHED CIRCUIT that remains ON when ON and START is selected. Very important.
Now find the G/b glow plug relay control wire from the ECU. Cut the G/b wire and connect directly to the START pin on the KEMO.
When you turn the ignition switch to ACC and subsequently to ON and START, the Kemo M113A will be powered ON (green light on).


NOTE:- I would install a diode in the G/b line for back emf protection, but saying this no doubt the ECU has diode protection employed. Maybe a in4002.

Now if you turn the ignition to ON you will notice -- when the key is at ACC the GREEN light will illuminate...turn the key to ON and now the RED light illuminates and the KEMO's timer circuit is activated. The Kemo will then time out (red light extinguishes). However the green light (power on to the Kemo), remains ON, meaning YES it is powered on all the time the engine is running..... so anytime the ECU has or sees a requirement for glow plugs to be powered ON, the glow plugs will "fire" up. Just like normal operation.

The last thing to do is now connect the glow plug relay across the Kemo relay pins... one to the glow plug relay and the other to earth.
If you have a telltale light coupled to the glow plug buss bar, illumination of will confirm the time period you have selected for glow plugs ON

NOW.......having said all of the above, I take no responsibility for anyone implementing this simplified system.

Note:- I have no idea how many hours in a powered up configuration will the Kemo last.

The following observations were made during my testing. The centre pin in the START / STOP portion of the KEMO is a common earth. which is why there is no need for an added relay.

Connection of the Kemo into a circuit of the vehicle is advised rather than "just powering straight to the battery". The Kemo only draws milli-amps.

The Kemo is not water resistant..... I cut the top off for a look see.

I have cycled the above probably 300 times on the bench and have not encountered any problems. From 10 seconds time out to 2 minutes time out.

The "guts" to this simplified circuit working is in the Kemo being powered up before receiving a command from the ECU.

As I said before --- I accept no responsibility should you elect to use this simplified circuit.

If you ask will I employ this circuit....if the presently used Kemo fails, the answer is yes.

If any member wishes to modify - elaborate on - or add remove or shift ------ go for it. Sorry if it's in the wrong section.

Cheers and hope this is of some help to members,

My 2 bobs worth

 

Hi mudstar,
With all the hoo-har with using the Kemo M113A timer -- and the original "why the missing tips" thread has been closed down...... a bit more information.

I stated when I first did it that the original thread was temporarily closed until we had a discussion and possibly sorted the reasons why they were different, and the reason for that was the inherent congestion, that was the only reason, to contain info about differences to one short thread, they can be merged later.

 

Sorry for the delays guys been pretty hectic with uni work, just an update

Ok guys ive managed to get the thing to work, seems the relay was having issues, swapped it out with a 40 amp fog light relay, ANd now comes the next problem lol, i think ive got the newer version of the kemo, and with the added relay, its giving grief in some ways, im reading into the new thread about the different types of kemo

Once i put the ignition on, it lights up green, but no timer activated

Turn off

Put ignition back on, timer is active, SO, im assuming there is something else going on, as the timer should come on every time u put it into ignition before firing up

The kemo is wired straight onto the battery positive an negative, ive read so long as its a constant power supply, i should be fine

 

im assuming there is something else going on, as the timer should come on every time u put it into ignition before firing up

Is the car at normal running temp when your trying this? my timer doesnt glow again when my car reaches over 70 degrees which is perfect

 

Hi mudstar, welcome to the forum.

This is my wiring diagram and to date have had no problems.
I have noted that several members have indicated --- "It don't work".

The added relay I have been using is a Narva spotlight relay, 40 amp unit from, if I remember rightly, purchased from Jaycar. I don't think the brand of relay has any bearing on your problem.

When installing, I splice into the G/b wire at the glow plug relay. Not at the ECU. If you ask 'why?', only because I find it easier -- plus I pick up the required positive from the glow plug relay for the Kemo timer. (it's just a personal preference as I wished to use all the Nissan glow plug circuit protection -- fuses etc).

However the earthing for the Kemo timer and the start cycle is all thru the ECU supplied controlled earth......in other words the ECU controls the Kemo......not the ignition switch.

The only answer I have is -- check you have the required earths at the Kemo as per the diagram and the positive (12v +) is "hot wired" - meaning power is available to the Kemo at all times. Don't forget to add a protection fuse.

As a note...I have noticed the latest Kemo timers appear to be potted/moisture protected which means it could be mounted under the bonnet. Mine is under the bonnet, been there for maybe 4 years with no problems.
I have ran a new installation on the bench with no problems using the above diagram, using different relays, new and old no name units etc. No faults encountered.

My interpretation is that if it works on the bench.... then the way it is wired into the vehicle system will be the fault......like the + take off and the G/b wire install.

Question - is your Kemo positive switched ON via the ignition switch?

Lets know how you go -- I am interested.

 

yeah cheers guys, will need to go over it again 2mrrw....

id assume both CRD and DI use the same glow plug system an parts

 

Stupid question what is the main reason for this? Is it a benefit to the crd

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===> http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/zd30-di-engine-3-litre-71/glow-plugs-why-missing-tips-59903/

 

Green light means the unit is powered up but timer is not active,
with red light on as well means timer is active.
There is small rotary switch/dial om its side which is used to adjust the timer period. To check the timer interval just use stop watch and observe how long the red LED stays on.

Try (instead of the relay)activating the timer manually by shorting the "start" terminal and common terminal. Check the instructions which come with Kemo unit.

I suspect that either you spliced in to incorrect terminal on ECU, you can check if the green LED is still ON after about 5 -10 mins after the engine is running, if it is you have.

If not than it appears that you are another case of timer not activating because the relay triggers quicker than Kemo powers up. See this thread -->

http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/zd30-di-engine-3-litre-71/kemotimer-euro-au-differences-181586/

Kemo needs to power up first than the start terminals can be bridged/shorted which will activate timer. It is also possible that due to the product revision the latest version of Kemo are more sensitive to this than previous ones.


Cheers