...they just keep on giving:



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Just keep in mind Ray it's for our safety, extra revenue is purely coincidence.

Cheers

Justin.

 

All speed camera operators and proponents are paedophiles. Shoot them all. The end

 

Yet Vic's surplus grows

The bottom line was boosted by slower than average government spending growth, higher than expected revenue from fines and dividends from the state's water businesses and Snowy Hydro Limited.

Victoria's surplus grows to $316m on the back of lower growth in expenses - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Fucing cameras do not save lives, there is not substantiated proof they do. They are just a justified means of law inforcement. Cameras are not located at accident hot spots and even with the new rules, they won't be too.

Speeding is a contributor to fatalities, it is not the definitive reason. People are **** drivers and most in Vic die on corners. They take corners too fast because they don't understand how to drive. And too fast is too fast for the conditions, not necessarily exceeding the speed limit, but they won't tell you that. So factors include driver skill, road conditions, etc. Skill up drivers with the revenue at least!

 

Yet Vic's surplus grows

Victoria's surplus grows to $316m on the back of lower growth in expenses - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Fucing cameras do not save lives, there is not substantiated proof they do. They are just a justified means of law inforcement. Cameras are not located at accident hot spots and even with the new rules, they won't be too.

Speeding is a contributor to fatalities, it is not the definitive reason. People are **** drivers and most in Vic die on corners. They take corners too fast because they don't understand how to drive. And too fast is too fast for the conditions, not necessarily exceeding the speed limit, but they won't tell you that. So factors include driver skill, road conditions, etc. Skill up drivers with the revenue at least!

Agree with all of this, its pretty much the same as my views on the matter.

But skilling up the drivers with the revenue? That won't happen, ever.
I'd love it to happen, because most of the people in this state are fkn hopeless on the road, but better drivers mean less accidents, meaning accidents to blame on speeding. (The idea that speeding is the cause of as many accident as the cops claim is pathetic. Perhaps they confuse inappropriate speed and speeding, or perhaps honesty from our law enforcement is just too much to ask.)

If they increased the speed camera tolerance to something reasonable, like 15km/h over the limit, then they would mostly catch intentional speeders, I have been done here a few times for doing 75 in a 70 zone and its always downhill, its too easy to let the speed creep up by 5km/h without noticing. Bastards

Our tolerance here in Vic is 3km/h. Yep, 3.
If the road condition dictate that its safe to do the speed limit, doing less than 5km/h over that does not change a thing.
How can barrelling down the Hume Freeway at 110km/h be safe, but suddenly if you creep up to 114km/h its unsafe, you will definitely crash, etc etc?????

 

If they increased the speed camera tolerance to something reasonable, like 15km/h over the limit, then they would mostly catch intentional speeders, I have been done here a few times for doing 75 in a 70 zone and its always downhill, its too easy to let the speed creep up by 5km/h without noticing. Bastards

 

Yeah, 5km at 50km/h is easy to accomodate, 5km at 110km/h is not so much.

 

going over the speed limit anywhere is speeding. speed limits are there to save ourselves. if you cannot stay to the speed limits do not drive. as for going down hill that is what brakes are for. now I will duck and run for cover. :driving:

 

going over the speed limit anywhere is speeding. speed limits are there to save ourselves. if you cannot stay to the speed limits do not drive. as for going down hill that is what brakes are for. now I will duck and run for cover. :driving:

It is not as simple as that. Someone dies on a corner and Police and Coroner blame speed. But they fail to mention that the person was NOT exceeding the limit, they were merely exceeding the speed required to safely negotiate the conditions.

 

It's funny growing up in the Yarra Valley and driving the spur roads through the mountains to then come out to the open plains. The few corners that exist, local people slow down 20km/h to negotiate, whilst I hook through still speeding and manage to do so with relative safety. People out here have no driving skill, if they then tour the Yarra Valley, they come undone because they don't now how to drive to the conditions.

I remember one year the Yarra Valley had the highest number of fatalities for the year and almost all were not locals.

If speed kills, we shouldn't be moving at all.

 

It's funny growing up in the Yarra Valley and driving the spur roads through the mountains to then come out to the open plains. The few corners that exist, local people slow down 20km/h to negotiate, whilst I hook through still speeding and manage to do so with relative safety.

Albeit with less margin for error i.e. increased risk.

People out here have no driving skill, if they then tour the Yarra Valley, they come undone because they don't now how to drive to the conditions.

There is a difference between driving to conditions and taking additional unnecessary risks. You may have more "skill" since you respond to the road conditions, but perhaps you are taking more overall risk than is necessary?

I remember one year the Yarra Valley had the highest number of fatalities for the year and almost all were not locals.

Define a local? Maybe some of those people have been riding the black spur for years and simply pushed their risk levels too far. What is your point - Yarra Valley drivers are the best in Australia and should be commended for their ability to familiarise themselves with a couple of corners and occasional frost? Please.

For me, I know my local roads/tracks/areas well but I don't see any reason to take any undue risk than if I was driving in an unknown area. Reducing your level of driving caution because you are on a "local" road is ridiculous.

Don't get me wrong, speed limits are too low for many of the cars now on the road. Unfortunately, some cars and their drivers are not capable of safely operating at those higher speeds. Me: I'll drive to the conditions - with a reasonable margin of error.

On the topic of speed cameras, from a Victorian perspective I think all non-Police mobile cameras should all be clearly signposted and legally parked, not obscuring a foot/bikepath. Speed tolerances should be aligned with the ADR speedometer tolerance + a fixed reading error. License testing should include mandatory defensive driver training for Ps, and advanced training upon graduation from Ps to full license (subsidised by the camera revenue would be nice). Refresher training should be compulsory every 10 years.

 

Speed limits are actually pretty arbitrary, where one vehicle/driver combination can safely do 130kmh, another can only safely do 90kmh. All speed limits are, are an average, like everything, they set speeds to accommodate the lowest average or mean.

I'm not against seed limits or even our usual 100kmh limit, but I am against the allowance for error that now appears to be the norm. A 3kmh error (or it might now be 2kmh) at 100kmh is 3%, at 50kmh it's 6%. So that means in places where there are likely to be pedestrians, lots of varying traffic movement etc, we can go over the speed limit by 6% and be considered safe. But when it comes to freeways and the like where the traffic is bounded by barriers, everything is going in one direction, exits and entries are smooth flowing, we can only go 3% over the speed limit to be considered safe.

Anyone spot an anomaly with that?

 

Just looking at this from another angle. It would appear that revenue gathering cannot be used as an excuse.
Demerit Points......reach your limit you lose your licence for a certain amount of time. During this period you are unable to contribute to govt coffers.

Surely if revenue was the driving force you would want everyone on the road.


Cheers.......Lionel.

 

Just looking at this from another angle. It would appear that revenue gathering cannot be used as an excuse.
Demerit Points......reach your limit you lose your licence for a certain amount of time. During this period you are unable to contribute to govt coffers.

Surely if revenue was the driving force you would want everyone on the road.


Cheers.......Lionel.

So then why not just issue demerit points? Or just have fines to recover costs?

 

Bring the Variation back up to 10% across ALL speeds and then I think we will be likely to listen. I bet public Safety takes a turn for the better due to it too!

 

As you know we had a big whoohaa here in QLD recently where our "new" police commissioner said the tolerance was going to be lower and then treated all like children and wouldn't tell us how low... jerk....

Well from what I've seen nothing has changed, it would appear it was just a childish stunt from the Commissioner.

Firstly. Tightened speed limits and trap methods are purely fund raising, the argument about demerit points and keeping drivers on the road doesn't hold water as there are just so many of us they can afford to lose a few for a few months at a time.

Secondly. Cops have been hiding behind trees here in QLD for ages, saw one a few weeks ago getting vehicles in a shared 10k zone hiding in an alley behind a wall. I must have been so lucky as 10k is almost impossible to maintain (I wondered at the time what his tolerance was).

Thirdly. Lowest common denominator, when you give out licenses in corn flakes packets you do have to lower the standards across the board. I know they have been a lot tougher on the theory side of late (still no skill required) but for many years it wasn't hard in any way and those people are still among us.

Everyday we see the stupid and the arrogant do things that make you shake your head.

I often ask myself the question, why is it safe to do 100k on a narrow, windy, back country road yet we have plenty of superior wide roads in more populated areas that are 80 and 90?????????

 

But in QLD they put signs on the road advising of a camera in the area, no?
QLD used to confiscate the hoon cars and fit them out with cameras.

QLD motorways and road management is so inconsistent, I don't think they are compareable to VIC.

 

But in QLD they put signs on the road advising of a camera in the area, no?
Yes, you see them just as you go past......

QLD used to confiscate the hoon cars and fit them out with cameras.
Last year I put up a warning on here for locals as there were 2 old vehicles set up near round about exits with cameras inside (and really dark windows... probably illegally dark) haven't seen them for a long time but they probably still do.

QLD motorways and road management is so inconsistent, I don't think they are compareable to VIC. Not sure they are any worse than any other State or Territory I've lived and driven in, just different with some rules and regs.

When a cop is hiding in the trees in the centre nature strip and your flashing past (legally) at 100k, you don't always see the sign he put up just in front of the tree beside him....

 

I get the impression that most here consider themselves to be expert drivers and the rest of the populace are unskilled morons.

Must be something in the water around here I suppose......lol.


Cheers.......Lionel.

 

Well for my part I raced sports sedans and touring cars for over 20 years at most circuits throughout Australia managing to pick up a few nice trophies along the way, towed said cars all over the place in varying climate conditions, then I retired and bought my first 4x4 in the mid 80's and stayed with 4x4's ever since, have driven on numerous roads and tracks around Australia in most conditions including 1 stint of 2 months in the Kimberley in the mid 90's, so yes, I do consider myself to have a little more experience than the average bear as I would suspect a few on here have.

 

Can't do Campbell stood up pre election and said we will be rraising fines and making more revenue from motorists. There was never a mention of road safety. This sums it up pretty well for me.

I highly disagree with speed cameras fixed or mobile. If you want to actually reduce speeding actually pull people over only after the speed limits have been reviewed and raised.

Remember speed is a contributing factor to every accident. Cause if you ain't moving you cannot crash. Speeding is merely a term made up to create cashflow to the coffers

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2

 

It IS a car forum after all...

Look back over the thread. People are complaining about being assessed on their speed, to a finer tolerance than the vehicle is callibrated to read. Fines keep getting larger. Speed cameras are being hidden, and placed in inappropriate places.

The reason why they are doing this doesn't match their actions to control speed.

People are saying driver training, road maintenance, and better vehicle maintenance (and application of the elusive common sense) is a better solution to 'revenue raising'.

Pretty much everyone here is keen on a lower road toll.

Am I a better driver than the general populace?

I take pride in my driving. I only the laws of the land. I make judgement calls as driver, (home) mechanic, courteous driver, and family transport driver. I would like to say yes, I do my best, and see some poor attitudes/skills/judgement calls out there. Could I be better? Definitely yes.

 

I'd consider myself a better driver than the average. In comparison to demographic statistics, my claim is valid. I'm a mid-20s male, have never stacked a car or been cause of an accident and have never lost my licence and considering the many hundreds of thousands of kms I've driven. I still drive illegally modifed vehicles and speed. The law would consider my driving as hooning. But I drive to conditions and where/when I feel comfortable. This is often at speeds above the legal limit. I slow for school zones, built up areas, intersections. Open road, I'll do what is comfortable to me and inline with other traffic.

I'm against doing a speed different to surrounding traffic. Behaving different to the majority is IMO when accidents are caused.

I've been driving since I was about 5. Have grown up with paddock bombs/bashers. I know what it feels like to be on the edge of losing a car. I know how quick movements with the steering wheel can cause loss of control. I know braking distances. I know how cars react on different surfaces in different conditions. And I learnt alot about that doing donuts, skids, etc when I first got my licence, and from going to DECA (Driver Education Centre of Australia) when I was on my Ls.

Every new driver should do a defensive driving course as a pre-requist to getting their licence. A licence is a privilege, not a right.

 

Me too Gee. Motorbike racing, heavy truck and trailer license, Army vehicles (all sorts) 58 years a driver. Never had a prang.

 

You and I must drink the same water then .

 

HAHAHA.....I'm sure most here have probably been involved in some sort of competitive racing. Charging around various curcuits didn't make me a better driver, it simply installed an 'attitude'. I found that the differences between a Professional and an Amature were hunger and money. Ability doesn't come into the equation because so many no-bodies have that.

Sure, if I were to passenger someone around Bathurst, I would choose Whincup or Tander.
If I were to go 2up on a bike I'd be picking Pedrosa or Rossi.
If I were being driven around the city and suburbs, I would choose a veteran cabbie.

I'd be inclined to trust a good street racer. He is the one who covers most disciplines, encounters the most variations in traffic and road conditions and most importantly, has the unpredictiblity of the general public to deal with.

Lets face it gentlemen, most people would know exactly what a car will do in any given situation and most of them haven't tried for a sub 2 min lap at Bathurst or done endless donuts on a paddock.

Oh, by the way Esty, no accidents in so many years.....well done mate, it does tell me you either haven't pushed it hard enough, or, everyone else has had good brakes......lol.

I should ask the question....'what does it take to make a better driver?'.


Cheers.....Lionel.

 

If I were being driven around the city and suburbs, I would choose a veteran cabbie.

Don't pick a Melbourne one then, as it'll be someone with an unpronounceable name and the ID photo won't match the drivers face. Nor will they won't know where you want to go, or they'll know a long cut if you're not a local.

But I would like to make one point that differentiates 4WDrivers, at least those that go off-road on a regular basis, from regular car drivers. They tend to know their vehicles and their vehicle's capabilities/limitations far better than the average driver in a common door or the like.

Going off-road puts you in tune with the vehicle, it's size, turning circle, balance points etc. Intentionally or not, a lot of that will translate to on-road driving and a better feel for what the vehicle can and can't do. Plus the off-road driving will have enhanced awareness and reaction times to a large degree.

 

I did arse off my motorbike a couple of times. Once when I hit a heap of gravel in the middle of an unfamiliar road and the second time cornering hard on a wet road I hit a wet loaf of bread, couldn't get up in time to dodge it and the front wheel slid sideways. No damage to speak of. No 'other vehicle' accidents though.

 

I like camera's, as long as they dont take happysnaps of me pissing on the side of the fwy's !!

In all seriousness, i drive under the limit, as im unpressured to speed thankfully,
and if any knockers would only see what i see everyday,
you'd also feel they were warranted.

ps. i do feel though, that they could still get the point across with just taking points and no fine .

the revenue is an outright rought 500%

 

I like camera's, as long as they dont take happysnaps of me pissing on the side of the fwy's !!

In all seriousness, i drive under the limit, as im unpressured to speed thankfully,
and if any knockers would only see what i see everyday,
you'd also feel they were warranted.

ps. i do feel though, that they could still get the point across with just taking points and no fine .

the revenue is an outright rought 500%

If it was really about road safety there would be NO FINES, just very steep points/license penalties, make it easier to loose license through points, with very severe penalties if you get caught driving whilst on short term suspension, say 2 years straight up disqualification, that would certainly get someone's attention, followed by some time in the Pokey for a second DISQUALIFIED DRIVING offence, Bubba would straighten a few out, that would be my fav tactic to curb/ modify driving behaviour other than primarily investing in driver training/ education. .....

Oh and also very stringent retesting, maybe mandatory Advanced driving course - if you loose your license through points, none of this just rock in and pick up a new license.......

My view anyhow, take the revenue issue out of it altogether, and goes towards curbing bad driving habits of every kind.

 

I wouldn't consider myself the best driver around but i would like to think im in the upper 50%, (but then who doesn't in their 20s)
Instead of upping the tolerance for speeding, we need sensible limits. (hell up the tolerance too, staring at your speedo the whole way doesn't make for a safe trip)
Instead of 100 out of built up areas, more like 150, and freeways probably even more as there are more lanes and run off.

If they were treated like a LIMIT by the people who set them, they might be treated like a limit by those who are meant to follow them.

They should be set at the speed at which it becomes unsafe to drive the best car in the best conditions.

 

In My view its far easier to lower the speed zones the wack a speed camera there then to repair the roads also
The problem is police no longer have the resourses due to funding cuts to book anyone on the road for doing anything ! when was the last time u heard of someone getting fined for No keeping left on a multi carrageway road unless overtaking ? my bet never !

I have also seen may roads deteriorate over time and instead of fixing large pot holes or repairing hard shoulders Vic roads simply lower the speed ! why becuase they to have had budget cuts and have no staff anymore , just look at the mess on the Eastern fwy or the monash !

The Goverments get all this money from speed cameras but it seems none is spent on roads or driver education , our rego goes up every year also .

But we Australians just sit back and cop it on the chin becuase we are easy going lot !

Yep just bend over and take it again , it only hurts on the way out !!!

Thats my rant anyway .
PS there was a speed camera at the end of my street yesterday and as far as i know in the 10 years i have lived there no one has died or been involded in a crash ?
Did i get booked , Ahh NO i drive a 4.5 patrol RFLOL

 

This article was in The Age today.

Speed cameras go covert

 

As (I think Ray) said earlier, this limit would vary between drivers. I would like to expand that it also varies with vehicle types and condition, road conditions, weather conditions, time of day, wildlife etc etc

So really if everyone used their noggin, we'd be streets ahead. Back in the day of open speed limits in the NT, some people could not grasp that camper vans aren't meant to do 180km/h.

 

They used to run ads over here saying "choose your speed, choose your consequences" aimed at the safety side of the argument. I reckon as far as speeding fines go it should be choose your speed, choose your contribution.

As far as the ethics of it, I reckon that govts all over the country should just come out and say it is about revenue raising.